Starr 5x5, for you anuj

[hrdgain81]

Here is what my first week looks like anuj.

Day Exercise Reps Wk 1
Monday Squat 5 104
5 130
5 156
5 182
5 209
Bench 5 118
5 148
5 177
5 207
5 236
Row 5 95
5 119
5 143
5 166
5 190
Assistance:
2 Sets of Weighted Hypers
4 Sets of Weighted Situps

Wednesday Squat
5 104
5 130
5 156
5 156
Incline Bench
5 130
5 156
5 182
5 209
Deadlift 5 159
5 191
5 223
5 255
Assistance:
3 Sets of Situps

Friday Squat 5 104
5 130
5 156
5 182
3 214
8 156
Bench 5 118
5 148
5 177
5 207
3 242
8 177
Row 5 95
5 119
5 143
5 166
3 195
8 143
Assistance
3 Sets of Weighted Dips x 5-8 reps
3 Sets of Barbell Curls x 8 reps
3 Sets of Triceps Extensions x 8 reps

Here are the 5 rep maxs ... I took a day to "play" with the wieghts in the gym, estimated what my relative max was, then decreased it by 10lbs so I could start off extra light.

Squat 225
Bench 255
Row 205
Dead 275
Incline 225

I give it two weeks and the sorness will be gone, and muscle memory will start to kick in. I'll be a beast again in no time brother.

Oh and just as a side note, most if not all of the sorness is in my legs. This is a very common thing for me, I've had hip and knee problems in the past, so this might be a park of it. I had no problems putting up the wieght, infact it all felt very light in the gym.

[_Wolf_]

ok hrdgain81 thanks for helping me help u with shit u already know

ok lets take ur 5RMs into consideration first:

Squat 225
Bench 255
Row 205
Dead 275
Incline 225

ok, now IMHO u should have started out week 1 with the following (again: this is me telling u what u already know):
Squat 200
Bench 230
Row 185
Dead 225
Incline 200

and then u add 5 lbs to the bar every session.

u must be damm bored listeing to me telling u what u alreayd know...

[hrdgain81]

I just followed the spread sheet my friend. I put in my maxes, and it calculated that shit for me. And dont forget, this is my first time running this program, so this isnt really shit that I know. I did use this template prior to this, but only for about a week and a half. And I started my wieghts far too heavy that time.

Not to mention the wieghts you posted are dam close to what I did on monday anyway. As always, if you have more suggestions let me know.

[TALO]

Originally Posted by Sentinel

ok lets take ur 5RMs into consideration first:

Squat 225
Bench 255
Row 205
Dead 275
Incline 225

ok, now IMHO u should have started out week 1 with the following (again: this is me telling u what u already know):
Squat 200
Bench 230
Row 185
Dead 225
Incline 200

and then u add 5 lbs to the bar every session.

I was under the impression that it you took away 10% each week for 4 weeks ( 40%) Then added 5% - 10% each week. So it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get back to your 5RM.

YOur saying for him to only drop 10% for the 4 weeks and increase each week by 2.5%

Was I wrong in my thinking?

[hrdgain81]

Talo, as I'm looking at the spread sheet, here is what i'm seeing on bench for example:
1 - 2 - 3 - 4
236 242 249 255

These are final sets of 5 with the corresponding weeks over top. So I'm reaching my "max" in the fourth week. 236 is roughly a drop of 13.5% of my max. So you slowly climb up to it. The numbers go up by 6-7lbs a week, so I'm close to anuj's 5lbs. But this is by percentage so thats the difference there.

If I were to drop my numbers 10% (as in your example) for each week, my final sets would look like this:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
153 178 201 236 255

IMO those are just too drastic of a jump week to week. Going up by 30 or more lbs is going to wreak havoc on the cns, and IMO if your max is around 255, pushing 153 in your first week isnt going to do much for you.

[_Wolf_]

^^^hrdgain ur on the right track bro. dont get pissed with me dude...

the only reason i asked u to be a bit conservative was so that u can continue to progress on this for a longer time. i did not mean that u will not be able to hit ur 5RMs at all bro...dont get me wrong...

let me illustrate,
lets say u do what i wrote out ok?
then this is what will happen:

Squat = 225
week 1 = 200
week 2 = 205
week 3 = 210
week 4 = 215
week 5 = 220
week 6 = 225
by this week ur 5RM has already gone up. now, if u continue like this
week 7 = 230
week 8 = 235
week 9 = 245
etc

if u were to jump the gun u might get stuck at week 5 or 6 for exampe and ull need to reset the weight a bit. in order to avoid that i suggested u to start off at 200. now there is a difference between 200 and 209 dude: almost 2 weeks if u look at it.

i hope im not sounding dumb dude...i don mean to pur u down at all. im just trying to help.

[TALO]

Originally Posted by Sentinel

^^^hrdgain ur on the right track bro. dont get pissed with me dude...

Who's pissed....

I totally see what your saying, I was just dropping to much per week. It's been awhile since Ive done the program. Nice to have a discussion on it again, you know just to work the bugs out. haha!

[TALO]

Originally Posted by hrdgain81

Talo, as I'm looking at the spread sheet, here is what i'm seeing on bench for example:
1 - 2 - 3 - 4
236 242 249 255

These are final sets of 5 with the corresponding weeks over top. So I'm reaching my "max" in the fourth week. 236 is roughly a drop of 13.5% of my max. So you slowly climb up to it. The numbers go up by 6-7lbs a week, so I'm close to anuj's 5lbs. But this is by percentage so thats the difference there.

If I were to drop my numbers 10% (as in your example) for each week, my final sets would look like this:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
153 178 201 236 255

IMO those are just too drastic of a jump week to week. Going up by 30 or more lbs is going to wreak havoc on the cns, and IMO if your max is around 255, pushing 153 in your first week isnt going to do much for you.

Ya makes sence. I was fucked up in my thinking....

[Eric3237]

You guys and your spreadsheets!

What Hardgain has is fine. Subtracting back 2.5% each week from you max for 3 weeks. But lets not get hung up on percentages. 2.5% is a good round way but for most of us that falls somewhere between 5 to 8 pounds. You could go back each week by an even 10 pounds and be fine without even considering a percentage. 6 pounds each week or 7 pounds it hardly makes a difference in your recycling weeks.

Looking at the squat I agree with Anuj. If I got around 210 on week one I'd probable drop it to 200. Because my experience with these types of programs tells me a little conservative bent takes you a long way in the weeks to come. But it will work. The fact is once I get started I DON'T worry too much about what my projected max was. I start progressing and KEEP progressing for as long as possible. That is what it's all about. This is NOT a nine week program. That's just as far as the spreadsheet calculates to give you an idea. It's a however long you can go program.

If you were to use 10% as your number then that would be over the whole 4 weeks. In hargain's workout that would start him at 230 and he could add whatever to that to hit 255 at week 4. But doing 10% each week would mean you are cycling back around 70%. WAY too much. But you could cycle back up to around 25% and be fine. I personally like to keep it around 10 but maybe drop it back a little depending on my training status. Especially if you're estimating. But what it comes down to is ramping up 5 to 10 pounds each week until you arrive at you max. It's hardly rocket science.

It is, however, a mistake to view the first few weeks to rigidly because you can never fully predict your training response. But when you are plugging away at week 7, for instance, or beyond, and have yourself a heatlhty new max, the exact weight you did on week 4 is of minor importance unless that weight was too heavy which could have cut short you progression significantly or cause you to plateau and cycle back on a lift much sooner. Which is what Anuj was getting at. So the long term progression is more important than you intensity at any one time. And week 4 being a little lighter is much better than it being a little heavy.

Keep in mind that the progression you use in the build up weeks DOES NOT necessarily have to correspond to the progression beyond that. People have gotten this way too static. You do what ever keeps you progressing.

[hrdgain81]

Anuj, broseph, there is no hostility at all here. I like when you give your input, so please dont think I dont apprecaite it ok. The thing that is getting us tangled up here is that you are equating soreness and DOMS to strength output. Just as there is no corelation between how sore you are, and how much muscle you are building, there is no corelation between soreness and how strong you are.

I could have simply gone in and did 3 sets of 5 squatting with 135 and been sore as shit the next day. That doesnt mean that I was anywere near my limit. It just means my body is no longer used to the movement, and the resistance (of any kind). I will adapt, and I will move heavy ass wieghts ... no question.

Eric, great post, sums it up nicely. I like the spreadsheets duder hahah it takes all the thinking out of it.

now there is a difference between 200 and 209 dude: almost 2 weeks if u look at it.

my experience with these types of programs tells me a little conservative bent takes you a long way in the weeks to come.

Agree and Agree, but this is why I dropped all my maxs from the get go. I built in the conservative side so I wouldnt have to adjust for it later.

Talo, you got the right idea, your math was just a bit off. Thats why these exchange of ideas are good.