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A workout to coincide with my training?

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Old 08-04-2008, 03:35 AM   #1
robbo
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Default A workout to coincide with my training?

Hey lifters

Firstly, I've read all the stickies, done some searches, and more reading, and it's time to no longer lurk.

Apologies if i babble on a bit too much here, but hey.
I'm a triathlete, with the physique to match (defined quads/hams/calves.., single digit body fat and thats about it )
....maybe i should track down those that say you'll have a 6 pack without core work just by diet/BF% alone...

I train (read: cardio) between 20-24 hours per week - sessions varying from a 6hr enduro/aerobic session, to 1.5hours worth of sprints/speed/intervals/hills. I train twice per weekday (am/pm splits, usually dawn/dusk), do 1 6hr bike ride on saturday, and have sunday off.

I've been going irregularly to the gym, but i'm pretty good at making excuses to myself, so i need some sort of a program that's not written by idiots (and if i have to do one more cable row...). As far as specific goals go, well, i want upper body mass. I don't want to be so upper-lower imbalanced.

The more interesting part (i can copy/paste/print any old squat/deadlift/bench/barbell rows/military press), is when to train? given that i've already busted my ass with cardio most mornings. And eating pre/post workout. Ive seen a sports dietitian about my triathlon training (inhale food in large quantities, very often), but nothing weights specific.

Any help will be much appreciated and sorry for the life story, but hey, the details were pretty necassary.

ps. nice community here. I like it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:18 AM   #2
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Any chance you could stop training for triathlons for a little while?

Post up your diet, because that will be the hardest part. You should be able to modify it to meet your needs. Post up meal frequency, foods eaten each meal, total calories, and the macro nutrient ratio. Fitday.com might help you out with that.

I think a program where you do a split might actually be good. That way you could balance each split with specific cardio. I'm curious to hear what others have to say.

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Old 08-04-2008, 06:21 AM   #3
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We'll try our best. What have you done in the past for upper body.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:54 AM   #4
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Hmmm, when?

I would say that the "when" answer would be sometime between your cardio work. For you, because you can gain some good benefits from weight work, I would suggest thinking "short, basic, infrequent" workouts. So if you have varying training volumes in your cardio prep, I would stick your weight work the evening before a low volume cardio day. You know, maybe the day you ONLY run 5 miles and not 8-10, or whatever. If you could also take that 5 miles at a lighter pace, I think that you could potentially get some benefits in recovery from your weight workouts.

Obviously, the sport you have chosen doesn't exactly lend itself to 250lb ripped monsters of muscle. So I would say that when you train with weights it would make the most sense to concentrate on lifts that are going to improve your sport performance. IE, bench press is fine, but there really isn't any relationship between bench press and... well, anything but bench pressing. It has terrible sport carry over all around, IMO. However, pullovers would work your shoulder joint through the same ROM as when you swim freestyle. Squats will help to build some strength in your legs and hips, obviously core work is going to benefit any sport... and probably overhead pressing as it is also close to swimming movements and will help to build overall strength in your shoulder girdle. Otherwise... well, most other things are going to be ego lifts and not really sport related.

...hmmm, rows or pullups would work well too.

The key is not to do too much. If you are too sore from your lifting to effectively run, that is bad. Remember, overall you are dependent on cardio performance to win. The strength aspect would be more for fine tuning the package, not for creating it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:45 PM   #5
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First of all you need advice from people who know about strength training for endurance performance, IF that is your goal.

However I'm not really getting a clear sense of your goals. If main priority is triath and yet you want to "just get stronger and bigger" then those goals will clash. There are lots of benefits to strength training for endurance athletes but it has to be the right kinds. Getting a bunch of hypertrophy will certainly not help endurance performance (look up mitochondrial dilution for starters) but training for elastic (explosive) power, strength endurance, and absolute strength and/or power can help a bunch. If only in injury prevention and improved motor unit coordination.

I'm also getting here that maybe you have some preconceptions and/or prejudices towards certain types of training. What is stupid for one person may be just what the doctor ordered for another. IF you know and stick to your goals. But they have to be defined. It could be that certain types of training that seem silly and a time-wasting are just the kind of things you could use. Who knows.

So what are your primary goals? Secondary goals?

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:59 PM   #6
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BTW, I uderstand that you named the thread "A workout to coincide with my training". But without the word goals then that could mean many different things. As in "A workout that doesn't interfere with my training", for one.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:30 PM   #7
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i would venture to say...some hamstring training would be beneficial.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:07 PM   #8
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Wow i done some squats a few hours before the original post and i am still hurting like a f#cker!! and why is there always more flights of stairs that need taking during times like now?


But anyway, alright, I'll post my day's diet in a couple days.. i have no idea (except for 400-600grams of carbs per day), and fitday.com doesn't include a lot of Australian branded food, so i'll write everything down for today and tomorrow.

I've got a running injury right now, so my 11 training sessions per week have gone down to 7.. probably convenient so i can get over the beginner DOMS curse while doing less tri training.


Goals: Strength training for endurance, and to a lesser extent, (upper body) muscle hypertrophy.. for the extent i'm talking about, i'm almost positive that the first goal will give me this, because swimmers (michael klim, grant hackett etc) have the upper body physique i'm after, which is definitely nothing to brag about in the gym compared to many lifters, but that kind of size is my goal.
Could probably have refined that down to 'usable size' but hey.
A workout that benefits my training and coincides with my training schedule.

For interest sakes, i've got a couple of shirtless photos of me on the computer somewhere if anyone wants me to put up, i will. Same goes with my timetable.

last year in the off season, i lifted for 6 months, 3 times per day. at the end of it, i still couldn't bench my body weight either. then i had surgery (jaw), and being unable to eat for a few days wasted me away a bit, and then I got lazy and stopped going.

I hope I answered everything here.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:50 AM   #9
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I still say that you need a goal that suits your particular endevour. Look, you may like the way that triathelete A is built, but you are not him. Added mass isn't going to benefit you, and your genetics simply might not support what you are looking for. I work out with some guys that are absolutely ripped for strongmen. I also work out with guys that look tubby and lazy. The truth is that both body types do well in my chosen sport, in fact I would almost give the advantage to a little extra body fat. I'm somewhere in the middle. However, I'm not going to attempt to get single digit body fat because I like the way it looks, and I'm not going to try and get fat because I think it MIGHT help performance. I'm built like I'm built and I'm training to get as good as I can be given the cards I was dealt. There is nothing to say that being ripped would help, or that being fatter would help. I could play around and find out, but I feel good where I'm at, and I know from experience that while carrying less weight might make me more agile, I tend to feel weak at lower body fat. Conversely, having been fatter than I currently am, I know that I may be marginally stronger, but that I will have the cardio endurance of a hippo on hagen das.

So while I understadn your envy of said role models, and I would certainly encourage self improvement, I would say that it would greatly benefit you to focus in on what you can do.

Where did you get your current training plan from, for your Tri stuff? A coach, the internet, made it up yourself?

As an aside, lifting three times a day isn't likely to get you far.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:46 AM   #10
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woops! i meant 3 times per week

Current training plan was written by the coach, and it's pretty stock standard for someone who can invest the time (each discipline 4 times per week, 2x slow enduro and 2x intervals/speedwork)

I know what you're saying (and it is appreciated, thanks), but i know i'm not at the physical size i should be, because i'm slow as shit in the pool. Maybe I should say "weights training to make me quicker in the pool, sprints and endurance?", so if that's what i accomplish, i will be an incredibly happy man. I know that getting quicker in the pool will get me more size, but not necassarily vice versa, ie, more size won't necassarily increase my speed in the water, so I don't think I should adopt a hypertrophy-specific lifting regime.


[proof read to ensure no more stupid mistakes]
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