^^^I'll echoe all of that.
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Originally Posted by Ozzi
Obviously free weights are much more beneficial than machines, but beginner's should take time to learn correct technique and movement patterns with light weights. It's not so much a fear of a ripped tendon but the fear they learn incorrect movements, continue these movements and end up in a bad physical state further down the track.
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We're in total agreement there. It's basically what I said about injuries before. But the thing that 0311 and I am getting at is that for a beginner the only tools that are really needed are the basic freeweight movements and PROGRESSION. The learning curve is not that high on these movements we're talking about. It would have been much more complicated with Bill Starr prioritizing the olympic lifts which have a much higher learning curve, like 0311 mentioned. But for an absolute novice, even if they start out with a broomstick it WILL NOT MATTER so long as they progress.
You do not need to and shouldn't start people out with maximal or near maximal loads of course but the good new is there is no weight that is really too light so long there is a good steady progression. There is a nice comfortable buffer zone where you can learn correct movement patterns and still be progressing from week to week.
One reason you see these ligher back off sets, btw, is to re-establish correct movement patterns. Sometimes when you get near maximal loads your form can be comprimised by certain weaknesses showing through even when you THINK your form is perfect. So a few sets at a lighter weight is a good way to re-ingrain that "body memory". That would be on "heavy days" mostly. And I've gone off on a tangent
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I try to get away from the bodybuilder mentality that says you need to do a little extra, be it machines or whatever, to fully fatigue the muscles. These days people seem to talk about everything but basic progression. You got guys pouring through studies trying to figure out the absolute best way to work the muscles, trying to make EACH WORKOUT the be all and end all. I find that a monumental waste of time. It's interesting is all! The guys who actually susccesfully train hundreds of people will tell you it doesn't work that way. Progression over weeks, months and years is in the end how you get there. So along the way you find the ways to continue that progression.
When you talk about these fullbody routines for beginners they are programmed just right for the average guy. Any machines you throw in there will at best be a waste of time and at worst fuck the whole thing up. But of course I am not saying there is not place for machines, but the truth is that to me that place is actually further down the road rather than in the beginning.
On the injuries standpoint I guarantee you that if I had known all of this in the beginning (I started really when I was twelve or eleven) I wouldn't be sitting here with a sore shoulder and neck and all my other little aches and pains!
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