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Training discussion on build up or down?, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Alright, and I already know that you guys are going to tell me to get off the machines probably and ...


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Old 12-23-2009, 07:14 AM   #11
Pirate
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Alright, and I already know that you guys are going to tell me to get off the machines probably and I would like to because I definitely prefer free weights to machines, but the trainers said to start on the machines because I have never done anything like this and in a month or so I will start going to free weights. Also I may get some of these wrong because I don't know what their called or w/e...

Just about everything is 3 sets of 12

Monday and Thursday..
lat pull down
seated rows
chest press
incline press
preacher curls
then pushdowns but I have that pad under my arm like in the preacher curls

Tuesday and Saturday...
seated leg press
lying leg curl
leg extension
shoulder press
front raises (I think)
a variety of ab exercises, depends on how I am feeling

Then I do cardio 15-20 minutes Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.

Don't make fun of me I am just starting out trying to get used to exercising and eating properly.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:25 AM   #12
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I guess I should also add that I am not looking to be gigantor or anything, I just want to put on about 10 pounds of muscle or so then just purely do strength training.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:31 AM   #13
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Ask those 'trainers' why they think you should start on machines. I would argue the opposite, start with freeweights before machine.

I'd bet money they say it's so you can 'strengthen up' before hitting the freeweights or because they can't be bothered to correct form (even though a lot of them know shit about form)

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Old 12-23-2009, 09:57 AM   #14
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They did say exactly that actually
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:20 AM   #15
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Typical trainer bullshit. I'll explain.

What happens when we use machines? We work in a fixed plane of motion. Think about stability. The machine does it for you.

When you are on the machines for a few months you gain strength WITHIN that fixed plane of motion. You move onto freeweights with this new found strength and rather than growing and developing on a given lift you automatically have a weakened ability to stabilize weights and your mobility is more than likely insufficient BUT you can use more weight than you can safely stabilize.

Take the leg press. You load that up to 500lbs and crank out some reps, for arguments sake we'll say that's roughly 250lbs VERTICALLY. You hop under a barbell of that weight and 1 of 2 things, or both, will happen; 1) You can only get a 1/4 of full depth 2) you can't maintain the arch in your back. Why is that? You've strengthened your legs, they can push the weight, but with the machine you don't have to stabilize.

Think of it like a chain with a weak link, the weak link being stability or mobility whichever hinders your performance. Their approach is analogous to strengthening the links that are already strong. If you strengthen everything but the weak link and then try to break the strong links...the weak link will still be there!

Better yet is to think of it as a chain of equal links. Rather than strengthening all of the links, that approach strengthens all but a couple. You CREATE weak links. A better approach is to strengthen the chain equally.

Unless you can't use the empty bar for an exercise it makes much more sense to strengthen that exercise rather than strengthen the muscles that are used in that exercise. Who cares if you aren't using a lot of weight at first, you'll be using the same weight once you're off the machines anyway. Unless you like compensations, injuries and exclusively performing 1/4 squats.

Starting out very light encourages form development and allows for some time to learn movements rather than diving right into a weight that you 'left off at' with the machine. Aggressive loading and insufficient form breed injury and compensation. Most of the time people starting out are anxious and impatient to begin with, not many are willing to take weight off the bar to learn movements.

Let's not forget that using machines puts you behind the 8 ball simply in terms of motor recruitment and movement patterns. The leg press will not teach you how to squat, it will however teach you to squat with heavier weights and proportionally shittier form.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #16
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I understand completely what you are saying and I agree, I honestly think its because they don't want to waist their time on other people, what do you suggest I do then? And also is my current workout routine bad?
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
I understand completely what you are saying and I agree, I honestly think its because they don't want to waist their time on other people, what do you suggest I do then? And also is my current workout routine bad?
Take some compound exercises and do low density sets, meaning sets of approx. 3 reps. Seems low but you can't learn movements when in a highly fatigued state, i.e. sets of 12.

Do that for a month or so and then you can start into a 5x5 or 5x3 scheme and begin some progression. But for now focus on quality and correct movement.

Visit GUS (in my signature) and check out the exercise section. It should give you all the pointers and videos to do the exercises properly. If you have a question or comment feel free to post it there as well.

I don't like your current routine, especially for a beginner.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #18
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Well thank you for all the advice, may I ask why you don't like it?
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
Well thank you for all the advice, may I ask why you don't like it?
You're welcome.

I don't like it because:

1) Too much volume (36 reps per exercise and 6 exercises = 216 reps per workout) and density (sets of 12)

2) Too many machines

3) I'm not a fan of leg curls and extensions because they don't translate to squats and deadlifts well

4) No deadlifting
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Old 12-23-2009, 02:05 PM   #20
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So a more ideal workout in your eyes would be more of a 5X5 on everything or possibly even a 5X3 of all free weights, and lots of squats and deadlifting?
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