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Training discussion on Burned Out, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Originally Posted by Sleazy Your probably at the point where your grip is going to be giving out faster than ...


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Old 09-20-2007, 02:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sleazy View Post
Your probably at the point where your grip is going to be giving out faster than your body is. Really only a couple of suggestions, do some grip strengthening exercises, use some chalk, or buy a pair of straps. My grip goes out before my body on deads also and I had to start looking to straps to help me finish them at around the same weight for 5x5's.
Yeah i know how that is. I went to dunhams and bought these "hook" straps and well all i gotta say is it didn't help me at all. With deads or any row type lift. I would lose my grip on the damn hook and it would start to pull on my wrist. Any brand recommendations for straps?
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:58 PM   #12
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Why don't you explain what you've been doing for the deloads because I'm not exactly sure what is going on.

Yeah, hooks suck. Any basic cotton straps should do the job for you. What kind of grip are you using now. You know Sleazy was talking about deads at 5x5 but you're only doing 1x5 so you might be able to keep up with that with a little extra grip work. But I've noticed that a lot of people use an over-under grip all the time. So if you try your best to use a double overhand that will strengthen your grip.

Running a deload, as in just a recovery phase, without a "peaking" phase, imo, defeats the purpose of using extended loading blocks. You really should always try to not just deload but have a period where you try to do put weight on the bar with a much lower volume...i.e. the 3x3. Otherwise, when you begin loading again you may fail to keep some of those gains because of the build up period. What's happening is you're "deloading" then you're building back up with submaximal weights so some of that is still "deloading". Doing a peaking can help you cement some of the gains.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:09 PM   #13
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Why don't you explain what you've been doing for the deloads because I'm not exactly sure what is going on.

Yeah, hooks suck. Any basic cotton straps should do the job for you. What kind of grip are you using now. You know Sleazy was talking about deads at 5x5 but you're only doing 1x5 so you might be able to keep up with that with a little extra grip work. But I've noticed that a lot of people use an over-under grip all the time. So if you try your best to use a double overhand that will strengthen your grip.

Running a deload, as in just a recovery phase, without a "peaking" phase, imo, defeats the purpose of using extended loading blocks. You really should always try to not just deload but have a period where you try to do put weight on the bar with a much lower volume...i.e. the 3x3. Otherwise, when you begin loading again you may fail to keep some of those gains because of the build up period. What's happening is you're "deloading" then you're building back up with submaximal weights so some of that is still "deloading". Doing a peaking can help you cement some of the gains.

Wouldn't my 4th week where im maxing out be my peaking phase? Or is that not long enough to be one? For once Im understanding your logic haha.

As for Deloading it would look like this:

Flat Bench- 3x3
Squats- 3x3
Rows- 3x3

Close Grip bench- 3x3
Squats- 3x3
Deads 3x3
Overhead Pulldown 3x3

Incline bench- 3x3
Squat 1x3
T-bar Rows 3x3

So your saying i should extend this deloading setup for a longer period of time to keep my gains? I haven't noticed any loss in gains though so I shouldn't be complaining.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:59 PM   #14
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Well you could call hitting some PR's on the fourth week "peaking" if you want but it would just be semantics. This is why I preach about this stuff because people are doing it without having any clue as to WHY they are doing it. If your only goal is to set PR's afte a certain time then you don't need a formal "loading" period. You can do whatever the hell you like as long as it results in you setting some pr's.

Assuming that the program you have layed out is enough volume, the idea is that you are doing planned over-reaching. You are not letting fatigue subside but instead you are letting it build up to some extent of the weeks. Recovery is not taking place completely. Based on that, then, the pr's you get on ther frouth week can't be the extent of your potential ability because you are working in a fatigue and non-recovered state. If those pr's were it, then you should be able to continue loading and set some more pr's. Assuming you CAN'T continue the same total work and set new pr's then you should assume that once your body has had some relative rest and as more recovery takes place that some of that fitness you gained during the loading period you will be able to manifest. So in this case you are showing the strength gains. That means after the first week of 3x3 at the same weight as the last week of loading you put 5 or 10 pounds on and do another week of 3x3 and so on.....I'm not saying it's going to work that is just a best case scenerio.

Like Sleazy said the gains you got on the loading are nothing to sneeze at so just to make a long story short...yes you should extend the "deloading" setup and try to load the bar. But you're gong from 15 reps to 9 reps so the whole thing looks a little wonky to me. And your deads are not really being deloaded.

I think you would be better off doing 5X5.

Although I do over-reaching and peaking phases I don't do it using the 5x5 program so I'll let other guys speak on that.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo0125 View Post
Wouldn't my 4th week where im maxing out be my peaking phase? Or is that not long enough to be one? For once Im understanding your logic haha.

As for Deloading it would look like this:

Flat Bench- 3x3
Squats- 3x3
Rows- 3x3

Close Grip bench- 3x3
Squats- 3x3
Deads 3x3
Overhead Pulldown 3x3

Incline bench- 3x3
Squat 1x3
T-bar Rows 3x3

So your saying i should extend this deloading setup for a longer period of time to keep my gains? I haven't noticed any loss in gains though so I shouldn't be complaining.
That's the proper format for a deload, but what Eric is referring to is different than a deload. Your peaking phase would follow the same template as the deload (as far as exercises, reps and sets go) but during that peaking phase you are progressing rather than simply holding at a constant weight.

Suppose your 4th week is over and you did this on 'day 1':

Flat Bench- 5x5 300lbs
Squats- 5x5 300lbs
Rows- 5x5 300lbs

Your deload would be:

Flat Bench- 3x3 300lbs
Squats- 3x3 300lbs
Rows- 3x3 300lbs

and week 1 of your peaking would be:

Flat Bench- 3x3 305lbs
Squats- 3x3 305lbs
Rows- 3x3 305lbs

(doesnt have to be 5lbs necessarily, as long as you added something)

then week 2 would be maybe 310lbs for all the exercises.

Its basically the same as your loading phase, but its a shorter time frame generally and its at a reduced volume.

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Old 09-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #16
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That's the proper format for a deload, but what Eric is referring to is different than a deload. Your peaking phase would follow the same template as the deload (as far as exercises, reps and sets go) but during that peaking phase you are progressing rather than simply holding at a constant weight.
Yeah, Kane, thanks for pointing that out. That's why I wish people could just call it all peaking. Because it really is all the same thing. If you have pushed it hard enough during the loading period then there isn't even any need to repeat the same weight for a whole week. At least we should try to always say "deload/peak together.

You could put some weight on right off the bat and still be recovering simply because of the drastic reduction in volume. So the "delaod" and "peak" would all be considered the same thing. Just like I predicted before, labelling them separately results in people deloading and not peaking which is completly pointless.

Let me make something more clear. The pr's at the end of the loading period are not guaranteed and they DO NOT HAVE TO BE guaranteed-at whatever week the PR's will supposedly come. It's good in general to be at a pr level but just don't regress significantly. You may not even be able to complete the required reps on PR day if the volume you had been doing before was so balls to the walls....that would be OK. If you get an acutal PR then that actually sort of means that you have been able to recover somewhat so it may behoove you to try to push it for another week even if you don't feel like you will get PR's. The point is planned over-reaching resulting in new fitness AFTER you recover from that over-reaching. Not just to load for 4 to 6 weeks to get a PR at the end.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:13 PM   #17
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And just continue that till i can't increase anymore?

See usually I would finish my loading phase then deload and switch programs but this seems much more effective.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:27 PM   #18
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Yes. The DFT sticky lays out how to run it pretty clearly.

If you are not able to see substantial increases then to me it would show that what you are doing is not effective.

Not only is having the extended peaking period more effective, however, it is how you know whether you have recovered from the loading period.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:12 PM   #19
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Yeah its making more sense now. I always hear you will gain the most during your deload. When in reality i haven't been giving myself a chance to recover thats why I never understood when people said that. I would just deload for 1 week then start loading again.

Can't wait to see how this turns out after my deload/peaking phase.

Thanks Guys

This is what I get for trying to learn everything on my own. I took the "what works best for you" too seriously without looking at the whole picture. Ill post some pics after Im done deloading.
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