DC Training – An Overview
 

I only ask that noone repost this writeup elsewhere and keep this exclusively here at bb.net. Thanks in advance.

Here's an writeup that me and Protobuilder did for another website a while back about DC Training. It's one of the most hardcore programs I've ever done. Just in case anyone gets a wild hair up their ass and wants to try it, I hesitate to recommend it unless you've got a very solid foundation of experience! Back when I tried it about a year ago, I did some things right, and some wrong. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd give this another go for sure since I've increased my knowledge 100% since then..:fest30:

By 0311 and Protobuilder :hbang:

Doggcrapp training is an intense, high frequency, low volume training system built around one key principle—you must get stronger! Doggcrapp, the online name of the mastermind behind DC training, believes that size comes from strength. If you’re getting stronger, you’re getting bigger! On the DC method, you typically train three days a week (M, W, F) using one hardcore working set per bodypart. You hit half your body in one workout, half the next, and then repeat. This has you hammering each bodypart twice in 8 days, which allows for more growth cycles than a typical high volume workout. It is absolutely critical that you know your body before using DC training and, thus, it is intended for trainees with at least four years of heavy iron training.

Here are the basic principles of DC Training:

Get Strong = Get Big!

Every bodybuilding system seeks to build the biggest bodybuilders possible. But they all use different methods. DC training forces you to get stronger and stronger on your lifts. As long as your weights are going up, you will get bigger and bigger because your muscles are forced to adapt to ever increasing loads. When was the last time you added 10 pounds to your lifts? DC argues that if you aren’t getting stronger, you’re wasting your time.

High Frequency, High Intensity, Low Volume

On the DC system, most people work out three times a week. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday is most common. Here’s the basic two-way split:

Monday – Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Back width, & Back thickness
Wednesday – Biceps, Forearms, Calves, Quads, & Hamstrings
Friday – Repeat Monday’s workout
Monday – Repeat Wednesday’s workout

Those trainees who sling a lot of iron and who need a lot of warm-up sets can do a three-way split: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, & Friday. This split is only for people with excellent recovery abilities though. Here’s the three-way split:

Monday – Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
Tuesday – Back, Biceps, Forearms
Thursday – Calves, Quads, Hamstrings
Friday – Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
Monday – Repeat Tuesday
Tuesday – Repeat Thursday, and so on.

Here’s how you do it: Pick three exercises for each bodypart in order from your favorite to least favorite out of the three. You should use only compound movements. You’ll do one of those exercises each workout. So, on Monday for example, you’d do one working set of Incline Smith Machine Press. Then you’d move on to shoulders and do the same thing, then triceps, etc. When your next chest workout rolls around on Friday, you’ll do your second chest exercise. Again, you’ll do only one working set before moving on to shoulders, where you’ll do your second shoulder exercise, etc. It’s really pretty simple:

• pick three exercises for each bodypart
• do one exercise per workout for each scheduled bodypart
• perform only one working set for each bodypart

Frequency and Intensity are the keys to growing with only one exercise and one working set.
• Frequency—you’re hitting each bodypart three times in 14 days so you’re going through more growth cycles than a typical bodybuilding split.
• Intensity—your working set employs controlled negatives, rest-pause (you’ll rest-pause twice during your working set, which is like doing 3 “mini sets”), and a 6-8s. negative at the end of each rest-pause mini-set.

Here’s how a sample workout would look using rest/pausing:

Perform as many warm up sets as needed. These don’t count! An experienced, strong lifter may need 6 warm up sets for squats whereas a new, weaker lifter may only need two before they’re at their working weight. After warm up, do one all-out, hardcore working set: pick up the bar and go to absolute failure. You should fail on the negative, and your rep range can be anywhere from 15 RP up to 20-30 RP (rest/pause) depending on the exercise (e.g., bench vs. hamstring curls) and the bodypart (e.g., calves vs. biceps). At failure, end on the negative and re-rack on the bottom, then take 12-15 deep breaths (should take about 20 seconds). Then go to failure again (should get 2-4 more reps), rack the weight on the negative, and take 12-15 more breaths. Then knock out 1-2 more reps and, if you’re an advanced lifter, perform a 20 second static hold just short of lockout. The working set is followed by 60 seconds of extreme stretching. Then you move on to your next bodypart.

EACH AND EVERY REP IS PERFORMED WITH AN EXPLOSIVE, POSITIVE AND CONTROLLED NEGATIVE. On your last rep of each rest-pause set, you execute a painful 8 second negative. This is why DC advocates using machines such as hammer strength and smith. It’s a lot easier to re-rack the weights on the bottom safely and to incorporate a 20-30 second static at the end of a working set (final rest-pause).

Logbook

Because strength is critical, you must get stronger each and every workout. You absolutely must track your progress with a logbook. Each workout, you look back at your logbook and try to either increase your reps or increase the weight you used last time. If you cannot, DC has an interesting motivational tool—you lose the exercise! Because you picked your three favorite exercises, you won’t want to lose them so you’ll push yourself to beat your last workout! This period is known as a blast (see below). You’re only job in life is to kill the logbook. This method ensures that you keep getting stronger and stronger on each exercise. Once your strength stalls out, you change to a new exercise and try to get as strong as possible on that exercise.

Extreme stretching

Extreme stretching (AKA fascia stretching) is an integral part of the DC method. After each working set, you must do a 60 second extreme stretch. This is the hardest part of the training! One minute is a long time. The quickie explanation [by Dan Moore] is extreme stretching causes microtrauma from forcing sarcomeres to produce tension at extreme length, where damage is most susceptible. By holding it for 30-60 seconds, you initiate the stretch reflex, which increases the tension in that area, thus boosting tension and therefore acute damage. There’s some speculation about stretching activating gene expression with satellite cells. The greatest benefit from extreme stretching is that it will enhance your recovery time so you can be able to keep up with the increased frequency.

Here’s how to execute some extreme stretching:

Chest: Grab a set of dumbbells and drop down into the deepest fly you can do. Make sure to pull as much air into your lungs as possible. The first ten seconds you’ll be squirming into the deepest position you can, then the next 50 seconds you’ll be struggling to hold on. You can keep the dumbbells by your side, arms bent. Usually you want to pick a weight that’s half of what your 6-8 rep max is.

Shoulders: Use the smith machine barbell and put it shoulder height. Reach behind you and grab the barbell palms up. Then walk out until you’re on your heels, then roll your shoulders down. Hold for 60 seconds.

Triceps: Grab a dumbbell and sit down on a bench with a barbell to your back. Put the dumbbell behind your head like a triceps extension. Use your head to push the dumbbell down. You obviously use one at a time.

Back Width: Dead hang from a pull-up bar. Use weight if you need to. You might use wrist wraps to ensure you don’t fall down and die.

Back Thickness: There’s no way set in stone. Typically, grab a doorknob or machine and round your back while you stretch.

Biceps: Use an Olympic bar in a squat rack or smith machine and set it neck high. Standing in front of it, grab the bar behind you with an overhand grip (palms down). Slink down with one foot forward and one foot back and try to hold for 60 seconds.

Hamstrings: Put one leg up on a barbell or any machine, toe pointed out, try to push your knee down and hold for 60 seconds.

Quads: Facing a barbell in a squat rack about hip height -- grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. This one’s hard to explain.

Blasting & Cruising

One unusual thing about DC training is it doesn’t have bulking and cutting phases. DC makes a persuasive argument that it’s better to constantly gain a little lean muscle rather than fatten up and then lose muscle while trying to also lose the extra fat.

DC training involves blasting and cruising phases instead. During the blast phase, you lift as intensely as possible for as long as you can. Five to eight weeks seems like the norm depending on your intensity and recovery ability. You’re beating the logbook each and every workout. Once you stop beating the logbook, it’s time for a cruise! So you must know your body and know when you’re about to lose strength and overtrain. Just before you overtrain, you shift to a “cruise” phase.

A cruise is nothing more than taking it easy for a few weeks. This cruise block is your time to fully recover your body before your next blast. Slightly back off the weights and try other exercises you’ve wanted to do. You still perform just one working set, but you don’t use rest-pause and you stop a rep or two short of failure. Your sets should be 12-20 reps.

Every trainee has to cruise at some point to avoid overtraining and injuries. During the cruise phase, you relax mentally and physically. If you miss a meal, it’s okay. You’re not out to beat your logbook. You’re rebuilding your mental and physical energy to get ready for another a hardcore blast. People who “refuse to cruise” will overtrain quickly and stall out, possibly permanently. You’ve got to cruise.

Diet

Doggcrapp doesn’t believe in a carefully tracked, super-strict, calorie-counting diet. Also, diets are highly individual so the variables will change for each trainee.

There are some basic principles though. You’re basically on a constant clean bulk. High protein is a must! You do count protein grams and must get at least 2g. per pound of bodyweight. Eat protein first at each meal. Keep your carbs moderate and stop eating heavy carbs after 5-6 pm. After 5-6pm, it’s only lean meat and veggies. You eat moderate amounts of fats. Doggcrapp is a big proponent of extra virgin olive oil and recommends that you use it to get in extra calories. In one tablespoon of olive oil, you get 120 calories in the form of mono-unsaturated “good” fats.

To stay lean, you do cardio 0-3 times a week, doing about 45 minutes at a moderate fat-burning pace. It’s most recommended to walk for 45 minutes upon awakening to kick your metabolism into gear. Also, DC recommends that you eat fewer calories on light activity days.

Overall, Doggcrapp is an exciting, strength-focused system. By constantly forcing your muscles to lift heavier weights, your body should adapt by getting stronger and bigger! This program is only for advanced trainees, having at least 4 years of training. One of the many reasons is because DC trainees must learn their body to avoid overtraining.

If you give Doggcrapp a try, be sure to post about it in our forums. It’s a fairly complicated system for anyone’s first time through, but some members here at Clutch know it well.

“Doggcrapp” is the online name of Dante, the developer of the Doggcrapp system. For more information on Doggcrapp training, visit his website at www.intensemuscle.com. Information for this article was compiled from public sources, some written by Doggcrapp, freely available on various Internet forums and articles.

0311's Personal Experience & Routine

The following is what I picked for my exercises when I did this program. I also added what the suggested target reps should be. Some exercises are different from all the others such as deadlifts, calves, hammer curls, and squats that only use straight sets. Make note of that.

A1-
• Smythe Incline Barbell: 15 RP
• Shoulder Dumbbell: 15-20 RP
• Skullcrushers: 15-30 RP
• Pulldowns: 15-20 RP
• Barbell Rows: 2 x 10-12

B1-
• Barbell Curls: 15-20 RP
• Hammer Curls: 12-18 reps
• Seated Calves: 1 x 12, 10 sec. stretch between reps
• Leg Curls: 20-25 RP
• Squats: 1 x 4-8, 1 x 20 (called the widow-maker set!)

A2-
• Incline Dumbbell: 15-20 RP
• Smyth Military: 15 RP
• Reverse-Grip Bench: 11-15 RP
• Rack Chins: 15-20 RP
• Machine Rows: 2 x 12

B2-
• Preacher Curls: 15-20 RP
• Reverse Grip Curls: 12-18 reps
• Donkey Calf: 12 reps, 10 sec. stretch between reps
• Hack Squats: 1 x 4-8, 1 x 20
• Stiffleg Deads: sets x 6, adding 10 pds. until can’t do anymore.

A3-
• Hammer Strength Incline: 15-20 RP
• Hammer Strength Shoulder Press: 15-18 RP
• Weighted Dips: 15-20 RP
• Weighted Pullups: 15-20 RP
• Rack Deadlifts: 1 x 6-8, 1 x 3-4

B3-
• Incline Dumbbell Curls: 15-20 RP
• Barbell Wrist Curls: 12-18 reps
• Seated Calves: 12 reps, 10 sec. stretch between reps
• Front Quad Press: 6-8 reps, 20 reps
• Standing Leg Curls: 20-30 RP

For most of the 15 RP’s, your target should be 8 reps, followed by 2-4, followed by 1-3 all rest/paused. Some exercises such as calves are completely different altogether. For calves, it’s a 4 second negative, followed by a 10-12 second stretch. This counts as only one rep. My calves blew up using this method.

Overall, I definitely gained a lot of strength/mass using this program. My legs seemed to really respond the best due in part to the widow-maker (20 rep) squats. My calves by far grew the best. I was surprised to see how sore I was from only doing one working set. I personally liked the program, but I had to stop due to a hundred different "life" things. Diverticulitis being one of the top things supersetted with lots of Vicodin. If you don’t have a spotter for some exercises, it makes it very hard (psychologically) because of the heavy weight. I also must say that this program is very individualized. Some people, like myself, respond better to higher reps for biceps and triceps while others won’t need as much. I also got decent mass gains even though I stopped prematurely. If I ever find a gym buddy half as motivated as me, I’ll be picking this program up again for sure.

BTW, one more thing to note. When this system says getting stronger = getting bigger, it is dealing with high reps/rest/pausing. I know some people will try to call bullshit on this, but DC isn't doing 1-5 reps either. Doing rest/pausing, trying like hell to increase the weight on the bar will get you bigger because rest/pausing can hit the muscle fibers deeply with only a single rest/pause set.

It's important to note that this program is a very good program for a trainee without a training spotter, mostly because of it's heavy use of machines. If you fail midway through a rep like during hammer incline press, it's easy to drop the weight and carry on.

Some of the mistakes people commonly make are mostly in regards to always increasing the weight on the bar versus trying to also increase the amount of reps done with a certain weight. For example, I'll use low incline smythe machine. Say my goal is 11-15 RP. On my first workout I do 315 lbs for 12 RP's. Now, two upper body workouts go by in my rotation and low incline smythe is up again. Most people have a tendency to want to add more weight on the bar instead of carrying over the 315 and striving for 15 RP's, which would be an increase in performance from only doing it for 12 RP's. At least this way, you can continue progress a lot longer instead of burning yourself out with too much weight. :clit:

I’m sure there’s a few of my exercises that you don’t know what they are:

-Rack Chins: http://members.shaw.ca/irondog/rackpullup.jpg I picked this one because I’m trying to do a four second negative on each one. I think this works my lats way better than pullups. To do these, I grabbed a bench and put it under a smythe machine bar. If I needed extra weight, I used an ez curl bar and put it in my lap. I'm sure everyone can figure it out from there.

-Rack Deadlifts: Go to the squat rack and put the bars about knee level. Rest the barbell on top of the bars. Keep an overhand grip. From there it’s a regular deadlift, but you aren’t going all the way to the floor, eliminating using your legs. This is a great exercise for back thickness because you can go very heavy.

One more thing to note. Everything stated above is extremely general, and in no way will fit everyone's needs. I co-wrote and posted this writeup only to give everyone here some insight into another fantastic routine. I understand that the maker Dante took down his stickies in his forum at intense muscle for a hundred reasons, mainly because his paying clients didn't like the fact that he was nice enough to post all the info for free. Bodybuilding.com was another one, but I'm not even gonna touch that one! Everything above was drawn from my memory and experiences in the past with the program and most definately wasn't a cut and paste, in respect to his wishes. Protobuilder and I originally wrote this for clutch in their articles section, but I also wanted everyone here to benefit as well since I'm a mod. It'll be funny to see just how many cut and pastes this writeup will end up travelling. :gay:

Here's a scientific writeup courtesy of hypertrophy-specific.com found here.

Why DC Works: By Iron Addict

1. It’s obviously very low volume. Say what you will about HIT, it works wonders for MANY, MANY trainees. Most lifters simply do too many sets, of too many lifts way too often. They overtrain horribly, and don’t grow. DC’s system has you doing 4-6 WORK sets a session, usually no more than 3 days a week. That is a great formula for success for the previously perpetually overtrained.

2. His system is scalable and he is not dogmatic in making the workload fit the individual trainee. While the base setup calls for all work sets to done in rest-pause fashion Dogg knows this often proves too much for those that do not recover well and often has is charges doing some sets rest-pause, some strait sets to failure. Or if need be, only straight sets to failure. The workout frequency is scaled to fit recovery ability also, and this is at least or more so as important as the variable intensity levels.

3. For those that can take it, the rest-pause sets provide the fastest path to hit the muscle fibers deeply with the least amount of sets (one).

4. Dogg’s routines are based primarily on the big compound lifts and the leg-work is often done for relatively high reps. Can you say recipe for success?

5. The system has a built in intensity cycling schedule. These are the so-called “cruise weeks”. I believe they were originally built in the system primarily to scale back the androgen use for a short time (four weeks heavy, two weeks low dose with clomid to help HPTA recovery) and were then also used to scale back the intensity, and take a slight break from the grueling chore of the extreme eating required to build extreme mass. What is beautiful about this system is that it works wonders for both the gear user, and ESPECIALLY well for those training clean. Most people’s bodies just don’t stand up well to a constant high intensity pounding and this system provides just the active rest break that so many need, but so few get on other systems.

6. The loading changes every week. Dogg’s system of picking 3 different lifts for each bodypart and rotating them each week stops the neural adaptation burnout that occurs when doing the same lifts week-in, week-out. On the down side people that don’t recruit well sometimes don’t progress on individual lifts as fast as they would when the neural adaptations are allowed to progress on a weekly basis. But this is offset by the fact that most people get better size gains when the load is varied, and it takes quite a while for most people to hit a wall with this type of loading.

7. DC KNOWS the importance of extreme protein for extreme gains and if you are not getting his recommendation for protein everyday, you simply are not doing DC training—period!

8. The extreme stretching is a big factor in the routines success. I USED to believe it was only necessary for extremely advanced lifters. I was wrong. After putting 90% of my trainees on extreme stretching I have seen the light and you should too. Without the fascia stretched you are making things more difficult in your attempts to accrue mass than you need to—STRETCH!!!

9. It is scalable for both the clean trainee and those doing gear. There are still some misconceptions out there by some that have concluded since the original “Cycles on Pennies” thread spoke quite a bit about androgen use that the system was and is for those doing gear only. Nothing could be further from the truth and in fact the volume routines should be termed the androgen routines. DC’s training works great either way.

10. Dogg is brilliant and continues to refine and improve his system. He is extremely giving of is time and is one of the true great contributors to this game.

Is this the “best” training system yet devised? No, there is no system that works best for everybody all the time, but it is one of the best systems yet devised. It doesn’t cover all the functions (rep range specific) of the muscle cell as some systems like WSB, or other active periodized systems. And some people just don’t do well on extremely low volume work. But overall, DC’s training will go down in history as one of the top systems for adding mass to the trainee’s frame.

Very timely post for me. Not because I'm gonna do DC training next but because I've extended the 5x5 on my pendulum and have been incorporating some RP sets (accesorising). I forgot to do the 8 second negatives at the end though, dammit!

Question of those. If you hit a target rep range, say 20 reps in maybe 4 working groups, is it time to up the weight, or should one try to do it quicker? In maybe 3 working groups instead? Or is this a dumb question?

OK, maybe that was a dumb question. On re-reading, it sounds like I should be going for 3 sets on an RP exercise...

I don't want to impact recovery TOO much. Want to keep those numbers increasing on the 5X5...

a single "rest-pause" set consists of lifting (reps) to failure, 20-30seconds of breathing, lifting (reps) to failure again, another 20-30 seoconds breathing, and lifting (reps) to failure again. thats ONE rest-pause set. depending on the number of total reps you were able to get in that single RP set will let you know how much weight you need to add the next time you lift that station.

the DC program is TOUGH, both inside and outside the gym. IMO the eating that went along with it was a full time job. I was pounding 450g protien a day and making great gains in strength/body comp. i noticed that my endurance suffered due to only training low reps, but i didn't do cardio during that time... eventually gave it up b/c i got sick of eating so much every day.

great program though

Thanks, but I'm aware of what an RP set is. The reason I was talking about them in terms of several "groups" or "sets" (notice I used the term working groups) is because there are different ways and opinions regarding doing them. Some people advocate picking a weight that will have you fail at a certain prescribed number, picking a number of reps, usually around 20, and going to that number no matter how many pauses it takes you.

It would be different for different people, but that could have someone go to failure, pause, go to failure again around five times. DC seems to differ. I was trying to get to the bottom of it. I am not planning on doing DC, but 0311 has incorporated the DC RP sets into other training, and I was trying to draw on his experience with them.

The way you described them, it would seem that one RP set should consists of three trys to failure.

Now, if you rest up to 30, imo, you are getting out of the realm of what a rest pause is anyway. I sometimes only rest 30 seconds between regular sets. The way you described them is one; I have seen them described other ways.

Its really semantics in any case. A RP pause "set" is really just several sets to failure with very short rest periods.

To further illuminate,

Here is one pretty standard description, with the author calling them dimisnishing sets:

Some people prescribe using your 1 RM. On a simple search - "rest pause sets" - I found ten different personal variations with very little effort. Some of them being so "modified" that they really, imo, weren't RP's anymore but on the more "traditional" approaches 10-15 sec rest periods were the maximum.

But between 0311's old DC journal and Dave's DFST thread, I think I know what I want to do with the DC RP's, but only when I have two days off in a row.

The following is the DC Gallery of results from doing either his personal training or attempting the program for themselves shown here. F*cking unbelievable is all I got to say....

EDIT: If you don't laugh out loud in amazement looking at these pictures, then you haven't been bodybuilding for very long. :newbie:

dc is awesome

dc training on a molecular level and physiological of dc training on muscle growth
 

Full thread found here. Authored by Vicious [as far as I know]

Max-OT has a complete absence of any high-rep connective tissue remodeling scheme. Even DC's program has built-in mechanisms to keep joint pain down. Given Max-OT's preference for heavy training, this could be a serious problem. I strongly recommend adding in a week of high-rep training before you start the 8-week period in order to protect yourself from this.
is perhaps Max-OT's strongest point. Because you're starting at around 80-85% of 1RM, the effect of RBE will take longer than on HST. Moreover, because you're working through a 4-6 rep range, you can probably increase poundages every week or every other week with 5-10% increments. You don't have to worry about metabolic fatigue. Because you're training explosively, the TUL is too short for high neural drive or rate coding (i.e. the total effect of failure) to be as pronounced as it should be. You should be able to make strength gains fairly quickly and from that, continue to stay ahead of RBE. Through the first month or so, Max-OT's efficacy with stimulating sarcomere hypertrophy should be pretty high. Note: if Max-OT used a 8-12 rep scheme, where you would have to jump through the 40-60 second TUL hoop, just to put more weight, there would be no way to progressively load quick enough to match HST. DC's training program sidesteps this caveat by saying you should try increasing weight every week anyway, THEN matching the reps of last week.
DC's reasoning, which pretty much fits with mine, is to not derive your diet from a macronutrient ratio of the total caloric intake. Rather, you "default" to a protein/BW ratio (2g/lbs just seems like a safe ratio ), then let volume and TUL dictate your post-WO and daily carb intake. Having done both, then you push up your caloric intake, if need be, with fat. If gains stagnate, add in more protein (which will add more fat as well.) If fatigue increases, add in more carbs.

On the hypertrophy pecking order, I have them ranked as such:

1) DC
2) hst
3) Max-OT
4) DFHT (sp?)

For people who want a solid program for both hypertrophy and strength, I really think DC is the best one out there.

For strength-oriented people (i.e. powerlifters) who want a program tailored for them, I think Max-OT is the way to go. And it's the fastest among the lot at developing pure strength.

) The average DC trainee has more successful training history than the average HST trainee, and thus have less problems structuring a diet to it. Max-OT is a really good program, but I think the success rate (hypertrophy) with DC have been measurably higher.


It is when you torch it with 20-rep squats, post-failure technique (i.e. rest/pause, statics) and loaded stretches.


Two major advantages exist with DC over traditional HST

1) His use of loaded stretches is roughly the equivalent of thowing >5RM negatives into the 10s phase, and then increasing that load by modulating stretch variables. For the body parts that the stretches cover, it becomes the primary strain stimulator and such in those parts.

2) His rep ranges and the rest-pause techniques combine for a form of density training, which is great for creating endurance-related adaptations. That in turns means the supra-protein diet DC espouses will be used as efficiently as possible through the 24-hour period after that meal. Classic HST doesn't have anything that intensive unless you include drop sets.
1) DC = high strain through loaded stretch, high metabolic stress, , weekly load progression, failure.


Rest pause is a form of clustering. It lets you hit more reps for a given weight than you'd normally would. He doesn't recommend RP for everybody, though. Both that and statics is up to the (CNS) recovery of the trainee.


It's HIT/fatigue-oriented thinking. He views it as a way to extend the effort beyond positive failure. Holding the weight in a contracted position significantly increases metabolic stress, which as with the other burn techniques, can help creates a nice pump, boost erk1/2 signal, stimulate muscle metabolism, and really help out with the post-WO glycogen uptake.
DC's loaded stretches regimen creates a super-high strain effect that breaks the very high threshhold most advanced-level trainees have from not doing SD. Beginner-to-intermediate trainees don't need it to grow, but can certainly benefit from that sort of modality. What limits the DC noobie is basically their ability to hit failure, with the proper rep cadence (the 4-6 second negative), under extreme metabolic duress. I bring up Brawn, because most people who've done Hardgainer, have done the 20-rep breathing squats. If you can do 20-rep squats, you have the mental makeup to do DC. If you can't, then wait.

I have a lot of admiration for the DC training, but it's a hard program. It makes men out of boys1) DC's program requires that (natural! trainees eat at least 2g/lbs protein. (which is considered a lot anyway) will benefit you beyond extra calories, most serious DC trainees strongly abide by this. I don't think it hurts; it's relatively difficult for your body to convert protein into energy or excess fat. You have two training bouts where mRNA and protein synthesis levels will be acutely elevated as well as the overall summation effect. And, frankly, do you really want to eat all those extra calories in carbs and fat? I think that rec goes up to even 3g/lbs, but for this diet (and the fact that the carb intake would be higher than a normal DC bulking diet), we'll leave it at 2 g/lbs protein.

I wouldn't even recommend HST or Max-OT to somebody with less than one year of practical training experience and learning. And DC is harder than both.
would normally agree with the DC experts. The strength gains on DC's system is largely dependent on the mass gains you get from the system. If you don't grow on DC, you have little-to-no chance of getting stronger. Failure-based systems use a sort of retrogressive causation fallacy to interpret the improved CSA=extra force relationship to support their ideas on recovery and their pragmatic model of strength=size relationship. That is, if they've done more reps than before, they've gained size. If they don't, they haven't gained size. was thinking, for example, a static hold of dumbells, with incline curls.


Yeah, that's DC stretch training territory. You'd hold it for 45-60 seconds; if the stretch is long enough, you'll kick in the myotatic reflex, which increases the effective tension. That's when Dante's stretching exercises become the devil.

The loaded stretches he'd have you do, and that overall the DC routine would give you better results than " HST. That is, if you can handle the failure and keep progressing.

Roughly half of his stretches are isometric. They are effective because the light loads are relatively significant enough to stay ahead of the stretch-reflex threshhold. The other half, much like many of Parillo's fascia stretches, have a limited useful life. You could keep extending and extending the stretch time to fight off RBE, but then metabolic work, pain threshhold, and other factors quickly diminishes the dividends.

DC program is aggressive with mechanical strain and metabolic stress. By using loaded stretching (and having the myotatic reflex kick up effective peak tension through the stretched part of the muscle) on most of the bodyparts, he amplifies the strain/MAPKp38 signal to levels only accessible were a trainee using negative-heavy training. By using rest-pause, he implements a sort of density training which creates a horrible amount of metabolic stress. Finally, he uses a bulking diet structure that enables his trainees to eat very high caloric diets without a pronounced risk of bodyfat increase.

Or, rather, his trainees to eat big, then he bumps up the metabolic stress techniques (through the rest-pause and non-WO short cardio sessions), so that the body is storing this caloric intake as efficiently as possible. This plays off the idea of letting diet dictate your training. Believe it or not, this sort of bulking/training philosophy was the status quo up until the beginning of the 90s. Parillo, who was notorious for his insane high-calorie diets, discussed at length about using the body as a storage factory. And this is how most athletes have trained.

The mechanical strain techniques DC uses (cluster, LS, some DCers do high-load static holds as well), feeds off the traditional wisdom of letting your training dictate the diet. Ergo, the high protein demands. But, his group of people happen to be very good at doing the timed carb intake thing and eating sufficient post-WO carbs, because again they understand that DC is still a performance-oriented system. The DC system pursues both progressive and absolute load more aggressively than any other program in existence, outside of HST. And thus, the strain it generates on the muscle is always significant.

Even though DC is more or less 2x-a-week per bodypart, it would generate better results than HST provided you can muster the intensity and eat big. The mechanical strain is roughly equivalent to 5s/post-5s. But the metabolic stress is that of Strossen's 20-rep programs, which isn't true for HST's 5s program. Although I'll probably draw fire for saying this, but you can view it as a super, super tweaked version of a old-school HG routine.

) Rest Pause = cluster (high volume at high load = more p38) + density training (short rest period = higher erk1/2 activity)

2) Loaded stretch = high p38 through initiating reflex (though DC's approach arguably produces diminishing results for certain DC stretches due to detraining effect of said reflex)

3) Continuous progressive load = no need for SD (albeit, load steps may not be ideal and the rotate-the-exercise MU management scheme is not optimal for strain)

4) Aggressive high protein bulk, which for most folk would be a 750-1500 caloric surplus.


The reflex actually always gets detrained when you use it. It's always most pronounced the first few times you perform the loaded stretch. Moreover, because in DC, the LS are done after heavy metabolic stress is applied, the reflex kicks in a bit later than it would otherwise. The progressive load helps to fight this, but not all DC/fascia stretches easily facilitate progressive load. Finally, the longer you go on a stretch, after a certain point, you won't be able to generate a higher tension response due to a relaxation counterresponse. That's not a knock against DC, just that there's a practical limit to using the reflex to generate higher tension.


It's primarily necessary in order to vary the MU recruitment pool and manage the amount of fatigue. Each session torches your CNS connection for that part, but does it differently than the session before. For example, if you do dips one day, then incline press for the other, the lower pecs and delts do not get torched both sessions. Also, because DCers rotate between free weight, free bodyweight, and machines, the stabilization factor varies, which adjusts the neural drive requirement. Or to pit it another way, a person would be crazy to do 20-rep at-the-floor squats for every leg day, but if say he interspersed it with hack squats and leg press, suddenly it's more feasible. The rotation creates a sort of cycling scheme for the CNS fatigue. The disadvantage to this, though, is that the strain you apply to the muscle does vary session to session in sort of zig-zag fashion.

1) Frequency is twice every 7-10 days. Traditionally, that's the frequency range that HD2ers and HGers use to increase strength.

2) The 3-exercise rotation strategy implementing a sort of neural-drive cycling scheme

3) Although DC is a strength-oriented program, its requisite load ranges (as with many >5RM failure-based programs) and slow cadence means there's a significant requirement for metabolic efficiency as well as overall CNS adaptations in optimal functional performance. The combination of the bulking diet and high metabolic stress enables both high glycogen storage and significant endurance-related adaptations, taking care of a big part of the DC program. In comparison, Max-OT is much less influenced by this metabolic issue, because the rep cadence is more traditional and the rep range is very short.

4) Green tea is a mild stimulant.

5) Finally, any program that successfully puts on a lot of mass (such as DC), enables the possibility of enormous strength gains.


Remember that sets, as are all volume discussions, require context. DC is not a Big Four program. For any given session, you'll be hitting bodyparts directly or indirectly 2 or 3 times from just your work sets. A work set may be rest-paused, which roughly works out to two work sets per exercise for given relative load (i.e. 15-20 reps for 10RM.) Finally, you add in loaded stretches


From the standpoint of weightlifting tradition, 20-rep squats is as time-honoured as they come. 20-rep squats produce a sick amount of metabolic stress and offer a form of clustering at a fairly high load. Finally, there's a possibility that clustering/density training could produce higher strain than contiguous reps. I'm working out a variation of 20-rep and Gironda with some people that more or less replicates that. But I'm not completely sure how well it will work. Again, from DC's point of view, 20-rep squats are part of the training methodology that has worked through the years.


Really, there is no ideal duration. It's more apparent if you read some of the flexibility training manuals out there. I only recommend shorter times because HST is high frequency and because the stretch loads begin near your 5RM. You need less duration to benefit from it. Whereas on DC, the lower frequency and more moderate stretch loads (with some exceptions) requires longer times.

Also, it's not desirable to do multiple sets of LS, because you'll speed up the detraining of the stretch reflex. The emphasis should be on continuous time per stretch, where the reflex increases the tension signal. At some time duration, an inverse relaxation response will kick in. Then the tension peaks or goes back down. You don't want to stretch that long. You don't want to detrain your reflex to be able to stretch that long. But 45-60s is reasonable for what he wants his trainees to do.


Max-OT templates are wacky because some templates have a lot of upper-torso overlap, and other templates don't. Dude didn't think through his workout plan well enough. Week to week, your results seem to bop and weave.

DC's push-pull-leg split is good for managing the CNS stress. But I think it might help to throw in metabolic sets periodically every 2 days or so. For example, on leg and pulling days, throw in a 15-rep set with a machine chest press. On pulling and pushing days, throw in a 15-rep leg press set or do bike/stair cardio. On pushing and leg days, throw in a 15-rep row and pulldown set. All done at a very light weight just enough to cause some burn.
The strength gains from Dante's clients on his program, for me, is fairly consistent with my experience with HIT. Because HIT is about demonstrating your size gains through strength -- if you gained a lot of real, force-produced mass -- your strength levels will take off, even if the coupling of your system has been mitigated. There's of course significant flaws with HIT, and by no means am I saying that it should be used primarily as a strength-training system, but generally if your mass gains are big, your strength gains will be big. The general complaint among HIT trainees is that they enjoy these strength gains but have little size gains to show. But the brilliance of Dante's program is how its additional strategies creates safeguard mechanisms whereby a Brawn-ish HIT program can mantain HST-validity, even if the HIT aspect of it begins to collapse.

In fact, I'd also say that the DC program, provided you can continue the progressive overload, is probably more effective than HST routine at building mass.

1) His exercise rotation switches up the recruitment pattern, so that you can partially avoid some of the strength-negating effects of failure training. Of course, you still can't hit the bodypart 3x-a-week this way, but the residual damage from the load stretching means some growth is occuring at baseline protein synthesis levels.

2) He implements a periodized recovery cycle (right terminology) in order for the CNS to catch up. This isn't the same thing as strategic deconditioning, but it recognizes you can't be "on" all the time. Also, because the training program by default aims perpetually for new PRs, at least the first week of that recovery cycle will not be completely mitigated by RBE.

3) Use of post-failure techniques as well as 20-rep breathing squats means he's ratcheting up the erk1/2 levels, and thus even with the very low volume, you'll enjoy enormous sarcoplasmic hypertrophy workout to workout. Couple that with Dante's hardcore stance on EAT!!, you'll see immediate size results as well as some recourse against the wipeout of your CNS. Unlike a unoptimized HST routine, you can expect sarcoplasmic hypertrophy every workout.

4) Load stretching. Now, this part is the unique wrinkle of his program. Turns out this is, for the bodyparts we care about, the load stretching is the secret -- the primary growth stimulator -- this is what essentially creates both the strength increases and sustainable growth -- without frying the CNS. This is the genius part. It's not just that the program is taking advantage of the length vs. tension curve to create major sarcomere disruption workout to workout -- it's that he's also relying on the lenthy TUL to inititate the passive stretch reflex and indirectly create a progressive load at the super-stretched position. It doesn't really matter that the training loads are themselves rather low -- as long as the trainee remembers to increase the starting training loads (or stretch angles) workout to workout, or extend his TUL long enough workout-to-workout to kick off the passive stretch reflex, he'll effectively have his necessary mechanical stress progression. Nearly every time. And so, he'll get his major p38 activity here, his sarcomere hypertrophy here.

5) And if you believe there is a relationship between cell volume and satellite cell creation, then you'll also realize that his three-part combination of post-failure techniques, loaded stretches, and managed load progression -- all accomplished in the same workout -- is a nicely packaged milieu that creates a snowball hypertrophic effect. Ergo, the amazing results.

I'll have to look at that other post you spoke of, 0311. Much of this is all mixed up and I can't make heads or tails of it. In that passage above I can't tell if he's disagreeing with the size=strength model of failure based systems or what.

May have been more forceful without terms such as "retrogressive causation fallacy". :offtopic:

Now you know I love analysing the whys and wherefores of things, but that's mostly when I think they could possibly be dangerous or just plain stupid -so it' only to a point. It's like diving into the sea: the deeper you go, the darker it gets!

I'm seriously considering doing DC training come this september when I come back to school...Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions/objections?

I haven't done DC, so my advice is worth less than 2 cents. But the only general thing I would say is that, at its heart, it's post-failure training, which I have done....although probably not as finely tuned as DC. So what I would advice is not to start this at the beggining of school! You don't know how you would respond to this until you do it, but the metabolic fatigue and the resultant mental fog could be a factor....

You obviously have good recovery abilities and you can eat plenty. So who knows....call it a general caution. It's not anything like the crap I did, which was the whole way to many sets past failure as often as possible....

I think we've all been there! :17:

Anyways, DC is hardcore, but it's not even close to a "regular" workout. There were times when I missed doing more sets or more free weights like the infamous bench press. This type of program is made for mass using the least amount of sets to do it (one). If you're not up to doing 20 rep squats with a weight that you normally do 10-12 reps with, then this program isn't for you. If you buy into "functionality" of free weights vs. machines then this isn't for you. Of course, with typical programs free weights ARE the way to go..But this program is a lot more specific with exercise selection. For instance, if you do flat barbell press with 275 and after your 8-10th rep you do a true 6-8 second negative to end on, that IMO isn't a safe exercise to try. That would also require your spotter to upright row 275 dead off your chest...Three times no less!

In regards to mental fatigue, I agree somewhat, but the constant exercise rotation is a way DC sidesteps both mental fatigue and draining your CNS. Plus, 90% can do the M,W,F setup without too much trouble. If you're pushing very significant weight that requires a ton of warmups, then you could move to the M,T,TH,F setup.

I personally like it compared to anything else. The reason that DC is different from any other "failure'esque" programs is this..Going to or just beyond failure with any given set will leave you at, for example, 9 reps, one of which was with a spot. With rest/pausing, hitting 9,4,2 RP's actually means you did a total of 15 reps vs. those 8 performed by yourself. So if you have 275 pounds pressing for both, IMO you're going to gain more significantly with pressing that 15 times all by yourself (plus combined with static and elongated negatives) than you would with 8 reps..

me too...... why did i venture into this thread... i'm ready to jump ship already.... :17:

j/k.... i'm sticking to mark's program...

but DC in a month or several (:p) is for sure....

as you guys know, i hang out at a zoo called bb.com quite often..

well, once you've filtered out the bs, its ok...

anywayz, i've been following the progress of 2 lifters who have been on DC and ARE on DC... (i follow around 15 ppl on different programs btw)..

this is what one of them wrote in his journal and i think it might help some people out:

i know 0311 said most of it.... but had to add my 2c :p

oh, and one of them has like 1.5 years experience but his progress is amazing...

If I were you I'd skip this one Anuj. Realistically, the only time someone should consider DC Training is if they've been lifting to a point that their gains have pretty much plateau'd. What I mean by that is that they've stuck with regular programs over the years and have grown to a point where they don't think they can gain anymore. Using myself as an example, I've gained very well over the years with other programs that weren't as complicated. Coming back from Iraq I weighed 160 lbs (after meningitis too). From that point until a while ago, I worked my way up to a max of 255 lbs naturally, (262 w/ one cycle of SD)..Using a tenth of supplementation as some do. :17: This marks a point where an "exotic" program like this one becomes an option since I cannot possibly grow anymore without resorting to chemical enhancement.

Not trying to diss you, just saying that you have a lot of improvements to go and need a lot more experience than you have...Being 17, you don't have much I don't care what anyone tries to say. Personally, I don't even start counting my years in the gym until 18..Even though I "started" back when I was 16.

Yes, I have that saved as well, but I refrained from posting it only because I think the RP range is case dependant and not that cut and dry. That was one of my mistakes my first time attempting this program. I tried to take an outline like this one and apply it to myself. The problem lies with the fact that some people (a lot of people) respond to a higher range than that [sometimes]. It really depends on the exercise, not the muscle group per say. I think that description was from back in 2002 (if I remember correctly, about the time when Cycles for Pennies came out). The problem with BB.COM is that those kids keep posting the same general description that DC asks them not to. I'm talking about the description that has that diet he lays out in the end of the post. He admits that the diet was only a quick example and NOT to be taken seriously.

This is a decent vague description for sure, but I know that a lot of trainees I hear he and IA trains starts off with maybe half of the exercises RP'd, and the rest are straight sets taken to failure. This is due to everyone having different recovery abilities. IMO, for myself, I definately won't be RP'ing some exercises. Here's an example of a partial day I have scheduled for after I recover my pec tear:

Monday:

Chest: Low Incline Smythe: 15-20 RP
Shoulders: Seated Dumbbell Press: 15-20 RP
Triceps: Weighted Dips: 1-2 straight sets to positive muscle failure

Normally, descriptions like the one above say chest, shoulders, triceps should always be RP'd. In the past I tried to RP triceps as well, but it was near impossible for me unless I didn't use much weight. This time around, I know I'll get a much harder workout straight setting dips. I'll also note that some triceps exercises I will indeed still RP such as rev. grip bench (11-15 RP) and skullcrushers (20-30 RP). So, in my opinion, not having been TRAINED by DC, I recommend that after you write a good schedule and exercise selection that you go through and realistically start off with a few more straight sets than you'd like, and through the blast start to gradually add in some RP's here and there, only as much as your recovery will allow.

Learning from my mistakes, here are some things I would apply common sense to would be:

1. When trying to select exercises, try and pick ones that FIT well together versus trying to pick your most to least favorite.

2. Don't start off using RP's for everything recommended.

3. Pick exercises that are not only the best mass builders, but also ones that will create a good overlap for some extra added frequency than twice every eight days. Example: Doing deadlifts from the floor for one of your back thickness exercises also blast the shit out of your legs. So, if your schedule of M,W,F has Monday and Friday being both upper days, then put floor deadlifts on Friday, so your legs will get extra work in and have the weekend to recover before hitting them directly on Monday of the following week.

4. If you think you have a deficiency in a certain muscle group when compared to another, then try and pick exercises that address your weakness. (Not the best explanation I know)..Here's an example I read at intensemuscle DC wrote (not in his exact cut and paste words) Example: If your chest looks like it needs more attention than your triceps do, then for your triceps exercises you should pick weighted dips, reverse grip bench and close grip bench (both in smythe)..Basically exercises that will work the triceps, but also blast your chest for some extra work on top of your regular chest exercises.

Disclaimer: I haven't personally been trained by them. All I'm doing is applying my knowledge from 9 years of lifting and being a member of various internet forums, and using common sense to try and give everyone a better description than the general consensus in internet bullshit floating around most other forums in regards to DC Training.

I agree, but wouldn't this logic apply to Kane as well....

Depends on Kane. From what I've read in his journals, he sticks to a program and sucks the gains dry before moving on. Other's leave half the food on their plate and leave...IMO that is a big difference.

To be honest, I could care less who the hell does it, I'll help them out with whatever they need. If Kane or whoever else will honestly give it 100%, then so be it. For the most part, I'll stick to my advice to anyone and say that if you haven't put a lot of time into the gym and on the dinner table, then why go through a program like this when you could realistically gain the exact same mass with something a lot more easier?? :cop: That's a question worth answering. If I could still gain mass from doing a few sets of pullups and dumbbell flyes, then I'll stick to that instead of doing an all out, intensity and failure laden working set RP'd for 20! For me, the only time I've gone past 252 lbs was on SD..Otherwise, I'm stuck at 250 eating around 7 or 8 times a day. However, if someone is willing to endure what needs to be done to make this program successful, then hop aboard.

The reason why Dante doesn't recommend anyone who hasn't trained consistantly for at least a few years (3+) is because they won't be able to generate the intensity needed for that extra 1-2 reps on your third mini RP set..Let alone being brave enough to load your 12-15 rep max on the barbell and going for an all out 20 rep widowmaker..This program will NOT work if you if you don't have the knowledge or experience. I wasn't ready the last time I tried it because I thought I needed some side laterals and an extra chest press worked in there. (I didn't :)) I could continue writing examples all the way down the page but I'll spare everyone. :nutkick:

Most people who try this probably will either give up or drop it for something more "fun" within a few weeks anyways. :hbang: That's what actually sucks because then they will go on bodybuilding.com and bash the program!..As usual.

The whole DC Training is still very much up for debate. I'm looking at various routines to see which one will take me to the "next level", naturally of course. I'm used to the eating and recovery times (I think :D) ,I like the structure of DC and I think it can really turn me into an animal. With whichever program I decide on, I'm going to do a "trial run" in august so I can see how it affects me, in order to adress the concerns Eric mentioned earlier. A routine change is still a bit off in the distance for me, but DC from what I gather, requires alot of prep work before you even start the program, and I'd like to get a half-assed head start on it before summer hits.

Honestly, Kane, it's not like I think it would hurt you, but it's like using a sledgehammer to pound a nail...

You haven't begun to tap your potential, judging by what you've done and what you haven't tried. Your going under the assumption that you would put on more muscle doing something harder than something easier at this stage.....that is not necessarily the case.

look.... i'm not doing DC coz i have other programs already lined up....

Kane, if you really want to do DC then all the best.... i already have a shitload of info regarding it.... but, i've chosen not to do it.... not now.....

btw, here is a quote from a very well respected member on bb.com.... it might help with this discussion...

if you ask me, i agree that a NEWBIE cant do it.... but none of us regulars are NEWBIES any more....

Might as well revive this. Here's a very good writeup from a blog. It seems to cover all the general bases and is a good addition to anyone's library..

DC Training Blog

^^^ thats a very old and outdated blog...

here's a better more up to date and has a lot more articles and info on it:

http://doggcrapptraining.blogspot.com/