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Old 02-21-2006, 10:04 PM   #1
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Default DFST ideas and input

For my next workout program I will be doing Dual Factor Strength Training (DFST).

This is the template I'm working with.
Quote:
There's also a strength training (dfht hybrid) called DFST: Dual Factor Strength Training. It's for people looking for more strength than mass. However, in doing this there will be a good amount of mass gain as well. Looking at it, I don't know which one looks more pleasing to the eye. This is also the brainstorm of Matt Reynolds.

OK, here is the program/split:

Upper Body Workout One:
1./// Barbell Bench Press: (flat or incline, normal grip – pinkies on rings, 5x5, 5rm, 3rm, or 1rm)
2./// Board Press/ Floor Press (1-5rm usually start where you left off on bench press)
3./// Dumbell Press (flat, incline, or decline for 3x8-10 same weight)
4./// Horizontal Lat Work (Barbell JS Rows, 5x5)
5./// Shoulders/ Traps (emphasis on medial delts - Shrugs, High Pulls, Dumbell Cleans, Lateral Raises, Shoulder Horn, Face Pulls – pick 1-2 exercises for 4-6 sets total)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)

Lower Body Workout One:
1./// Snatches/Overhead Squats (snatches – 1rm or 3x3 @ 75%, then overhead squat to a heavy single)
2./// Max Effort Movement: Olympic Squats, Low Box Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Deadlifts off a 2-3” box, mats, or 100lb plates) pick one exercise and work up to a 1 rep max.
3./// Goodmornings (3x5 same weight or work up to 5rm)
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12)
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)

Upper Body Workout Two:
1./// Speed Bench: Flat Bench Press, 9 sets of 3 reps w/ approx 60% of raw max, (3 sets close grip, 3 sets regular grip, 3 sets wide grip) – eccentric and concentric should be as fast as possible – push bar as hard as you can all the way to lockout as if you were doing a max weight for every attempt. – addition of accommodating resistance can be used; i.e. chains or bands added to the bar.
2./// Close Grip Bench Press (pinkies 2” inside rings– heavy work 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm)
3./// Overhead Press (Standing military press or push press 1-5rm, or 3-5x5)
4./// Dips (2 sets)
5./// Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)


Lower Body Workout Two:
1./// Cleans (1rm or 3x3 @ 75%) – drop low to catch the weight and front squat it up
2./// Olympic Back Squats (Ultra deep – ATF - 5x5 w/ same weight, or occasionally work up to a 5rm, also use accommodating resistance approximately every other week)
3./// Speed Deadlifts (conventional deadlifts for 6 singles with 60% of max deadlift. Do a single, wait about 45 seconds or a minute and then do another single for 6 singles. Concentrate on speed and form.
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12 )
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
I'm looking to add some OVT and DC techniques in to this for a little Hybrid action.

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Old 02-21-2006, 10:10 PM   #2
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I was thinking for Upper Body Workout Two I would do an OVT bench/flies and taking out close grip bench because it messes with my wrists. Also thinking of supersetting tri's and bi's with OVT But I'm not sure how I want to do this so my first change would look like this.


Upper Body Workout Two:
A1./// Low Incline Bench Press 5x5 tempo 201
A2./// Low Incline Bench Flies 5x5 tempo 602
2./// Overhead Press (Standing military press or push press 1-5rm, or 3-5x5)
3./// Dips (2 sets)
4./// Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
5./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
6./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)


All positive opinions are welcome .

Last edited by ChinPieceDave667; 02-21-2006 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 02-21-2006, 10:50 PM   #3
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If you are looking for strength, I wouldn't incorperate any OVT in there. The slow tempo superset is only there for increased TUT which would aid in increased hypertrophy. That's why the main goal of OVT is for the primary compound to increase, not so much the secondary superset.

Rest/pausing is a very intense strength increase tech. If you are going to incorperate some RP's, I would slowly introduce them. For now, I would only input the RP's for the back width exercises (pulldowns/pullups), or your biceps/triceps. My pulling power really got powerful incorperating the RP's. I wouldn't try them anywhere else unless you stall out/plateau.

Try running the program exactly as written the first week and feel it out. You may feel a need to increase a set here, drop an exercise for another similiar one there, ect.. Here's the RP ranges IMO are good to go for strength goals:

-Back Width (pulldowns): Aim for 15-20 RP'd. Example: 8,5,3 or 10,6,3
-Biceps (Barbell Curls): 15-20 RP
-Triceps (Skullcrushers): 15-25 RP

If I was in your shoes, I would only incorperate the RP'ing for biceps the first week. RP's will leave you so sore that you may fold under the frequency. If your biceps can take it, add triceps..Maybe every once in a while add in pulldowns RP.

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Old 02-21-2006, 10:54 PM   #4
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Another good RP idea is for your flat bench every once in a while. Say you fail on rep three at 315 lbs. To RP this, you could do one rep every 20-30 seconds. Psychologically, doing a single rep is easy as shit, so if you wanted to hit a total of 3 more reps with that weight, just RP each rep to ensure you get it on your own...

Also, in a lot of ways this program resembles the DFHT I did many moons ago. Trust me when I say that on upper day #1, after you finish the JS Rows (5x5), you won't want to attempt much more..It drained the life out of me every time I got through them...They were also third on my list....SO

Quote:
./// Shoulders/ Traps (emphasis on medial delts - Shrugs, High Pulls, Dumbell Cleans, Lateral Raises, Shoulder Horn, Face Pulls – pick 1-2 exercises for 4-6 sets total)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
For 6,7,8, just pick something that isn't very taxing like high pulls or db laterals instead of power shrugs and go from there. Only one exercise per will be plenty! When I tried to do 365 lbs worth of shrugs after JS Rows, I almost puked.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 02-21-2006 at 10:59 PM..
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
If you are looking for strength, I wouldn't incorporate any OVT in there. The slow tempo superset is only there for increased TUT which would aid in increased hypertrophy. That's why the main goal of OVT is for the primary compound to increase, not so much the secondary superset.
Right now I'm looking to make a transition from strength to hypertrophy so I figured doing some make shift on the program would enable me to make the complete jump to DFHT. That is why on one of the upper body days I wanted to incorporate more hypertrophy protocols, (i.e. OVT).

Any other Ideas are welcome. This is used for brainstorming. I'm still working out the kinks on my side too.
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Old 03-04-2006, 02:58 PM   #6
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Default what do you guys think.

Quote:
Upper Body Workout One:
1. Barbell Bench Press: (flat 5x5)
2. Floor Press 15-20 RP
3. Dumbbell Press (incline, or decline for 2x8-10 same weight)
4. Horizontal Lat Work (Barbell JS Rows, 5x5)
5. Shoulders/ Traps (4-6 sets total)
A1. High Pulls
A2. Lateral Raises
B1. Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
B2. Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
I might get rid of one of the presses I'm not sure. everything else I like but I'm still trying to thing of some set and rep. ranges for the Shoulders.
For the Dumbbell press I'm thinking I might do Decline flies instead to also help with the stretching. Your thoughts.

Quote:
Lower Body Workout One:
1. Snatches/Overhead Squats (3x3 @ 75%, then overhead squat to a heavy single)
2. Max Effort Movement: Deadlifts 3x5 working up to 5RM
3. Goodmornings 3x5 same weight
4. Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
5. Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12)
6. Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
Now I might change the Snatches and Cleans because, me personally, I feel cleans work my back a little better than Snatches and the Overhead squat is a nice touch to warming up for heavy squats.

Quote:
Upper Body Workout Two:
A1. Low Incline Bench Press 5x5 tempo 201
A2. Low Incline Bench Flies 5x5 tempo 602
2. Standing Overhead Press 3x5
3. Dips (2 sets)
4. Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
B1. Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
B2. Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
Don't know if I want to change anything here but I'm open to suggestions.

Quote:
Lower Body Workout Two:
1. Power Cleans ( 3x3 @ 75%)
2. Olympic Back Squats (A2G [1x5])
A1. Leg Extensions (2 sets of 10-12)
A2. Glute Ham Raises (2 sets of 10-12)
5. Weighted Reverse Hyperextensions (2x10-12 )
6. Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
I like this day because I like Cleans and Reverse Hypers and of course SQUATS!!!


Now I would like some input on this and if anybody sees a flaw in this or something that would be more beneficial in a combination for that day or to take something out.

Now like I said I'm making the transition from strength to hypertrophy, so keep that in mind. 0311 you know I'm looking for your input but you other guys are welcome to add anything. your thoughts :33:
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:27 PM   #7
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Default Just my opinion

Upper 1-

- In my opinion, after your 5x5 flat presses, your triceps should already be hurting pretty bad. I don't know how much more you could do with the floor presses afterwards unless the weight was dropped significantly. IMO it should be as heavy as your presses were for building your triceps strength. At the end would be a better place for RP'ing your triceps. My favorite RP was with skullcrushers.

- Decline flyes is an excellent idea. I think I'm going to start doing those as well.

- Supersetting high pulls and side laterals is some pretty hardcore shit, especially after doing the barbell rows. What's your rep ranges going to be for those? An idea could be doing 4-6 reps of high pulls supersetted with 10-15 reps with lighter side laterals. What do you think?

Lower 1-

- Be careful doing any heavy work that uses a lot of back muscles. The day before is 5x5 JS Rows.. Last week I tried (on this day) to do power shrugs and pulled a back muscle because of those previous rows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper 2
Don't know if I want to change anything here but I'm open to suggestions.
- What do you think about trying RP'ing your chest? Last week I did a low incline smythe for 18 RP and felt it three days later. It's a great technique for strength and mass, and Dante's DC training success plays a big part in that. I was thinking along the same lines as you with the incline press and flyes, but I felt that it would be too hard to keep increasing the weights after the 5x5 we just did. You'd have to decrease the weights negating all the progress you made over the past 8 weeks. At least with the smythe, it's a completely new movement, and a new style to adjust to.

Just ideas to throw out there. Either way, looks solid to me!
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
Upper 1-

- In my opinion, after your 5x5 flat presses, your triceps should already be hurting pretty bad. I don't know how much more you could do with the floor presses afterwards unless the weight was dropped significantly. IMO it should be as heavy as your presses were for building your triceps strength. At the end would be a better place for RP'ing your triceps. My favorite RP was with skullcrushers.
I see what you are saying about toasting the tris and that doing a type of powerlifting movement would overwork the tris... didnt' even think about RPing the tris... What about doing some OVT on the flat press with Decline flies?
I will def. do the RP for Skullcrushers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
- Supersetting high pulls and side laterals is some pretty hardcore shit, especially after doing the barbell rows. What's your rep ranges going to be for those? An idea could be doing 4-6 reps of high pulls supersetted with 10-15 reps with lighter side laterals. What do you think?
Def. thinking along those lines... most likely doing 2 sets of 6 for high pulls and 2 sets of 10 for side laterals so I don't develop too much lactic acid from higher rep ranges....


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
Lower 1-

- Be careful doing any heavy work that uses a lot of back muscles. The day before is 5x5 JS Rows.. Last week I tried (on this day) to do power shrugs and pulled a back muscle because of those previous rows.
Def. will. I know back problems and know what my body can't do. so I will pay very close attention to this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
- What do you think about trying RP'ing your chest? Last week I did a low incline smythe for 18 RP and felt it three days later. It's a great technique for strength and mass, and Dante's DC training success plays a big part in that. I was thinking along the same lines as you with the incline press and flyes, but I felt that it would be too hard to keep increasing the weights after the 5x5 we just did. You'd have to decrease the weights negating all the progress you made over the past 8 weeks. At least with the smythe, it's a completely new movement, and a new style to adjust to.
I was debating on it, and I do see what your saying about trying something new for a different type of stimulation. But if I take it out do I still do the flies. I've never really done DC RP so I don't know what would follow the bench.


your rebuttal ;)
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dave
I was debating on it, and I do see what your saying about trying something new for a different type of stimulation. But if I take it out do I still do the flies. I've never really done DC RP so I don't know what would follow the bench.
After you truely do a DC style RP for chest like the low incline smythe, you won't even think about adding in some flyes. I almost forgot how much pain stems from something like this. Doing the reps wasn't bad, but that last 8 second negative after each miniset blew my f'ing mind! Trust me, picking the right weight and doing them verbatim will be all you need. I have the full description in my journal. If you think about it, taking in 10-15 deep breathes is basically only about a 20 second rest between sets! Try to shoot for between 11-15 RP, but if you do more, then so be it. Keep going, then next time bump up the weights enough to where you fall into that bracket. After the 20-30 second static when you're through, be sure to do the 1 minute loaded fascia stretch for added growth/recovery..You'll need it.
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:22 PM   #10
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Additionally, I still remember what Dante said a long time ago on his website for someone who needs added growth for chest. He recommended after doing the RP working set for chest, take a minute or two to catch your breath. Afterwards, grab a relatively lighter weighted set of dumbbells (example: 50's) and rep out. Doesn't matter how high. Every session thereafter, grab heavier and heavier weights and get as many as possible.
The progression might look like this:

-50 x 25 reps
-55 x 21 reps
-60 x 18
-65 x 16
-70 x 16
-75 x 14
...And so on. Basically, the heavier the weight, the fewer reps...And there's so many reps really that you still only need one working set before stretches.

He ended up erasing that post of his I believe because he thought it was going to make the majority of people reading it overtrain..Plus, his personal training costs so much to get that he still wants most of his techniques to remain hidden.
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