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Full Body Workouts madness or sanity

Training discussion on Full Body Workouts madness or sanity, within the Bodybuilding Forum; I like what you said about people working parts of a muscle. Although it is true the muscle grows as ...


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Old 12-18-2006, 09:52 PM   #51
Ozzi
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I like what you said about people working parts of a muscle. Although it is true the muscle grows as a whole and not in parts, by working out different areas you can establish more nerve end plates firing off making the work out more efficient. But like you said, obviously the muscle grows as a whole.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:48 AM   #52
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by working out different areas you can establish more nerve end plates firing off making the work out more efficient.
Could you explain "more nerve end plates firing off"? If you're talking about neural efficiency, then you're getting into the low rep ranges (1-3) and away from the exercises/angles involved. If anything, rotating different angles will keep the CNS fresh (ex. conjugate system). However, I don't think all the angles have a huge role to play in regards to muscle mass though. Going back to Bill Starr's 5x5, which has flat bench twice a week, my entire chest (including upper pecs) grew very nicely without any other angle. This is because the flat bench can stimulate the entire chest. I know some believe flat only stimulates the "middle to middle outer" , and you'll need declines, inclines, flyes, ect, but they're wrong. I'll blame that one on the Arnold S. Encyclopedia!.. That fucking book gets into concentration curls for biceps peak (which is genetic), shaping your chest with cable crossovers (also is genetic), and the list goes on and on..

Efficient to me is the same thing as optimal. Hence is the reason for hitting your muscles 2-3 times a week in order to be efficient [ie cutting out unnecessary exercises, ect associated with once a week splits]. If joe the bodybuilder is absolutely obsessed with the multiple angles (even though the muscle works as a whole), then the most efficient thing he could do would be to devote a different angle each time he hits his muscle.

Example using chest:

Monday (upper 1): Flat Barbell followed by incline dumbbell

Thursday (upper 2): Incline barbell followed by decline dumbbell

Or three full body's to stay efficient:

Monday: Flat whatever

Wednesday: Inline whatever

Friday: Decline whatever

Now, speaking of chest, its primary mover is to pull the arm down and into the body. So in terms of chest activation, according to the EMG readouts, doing decline db presses yield the MOST chest activation. Inclines take some of the load off the pectoralis and transfers it to the anterior delts to a greater degree (more/less depending on degree of incline). So I agree that a few different angles should be deployed, but I disagree that they make the workout more "efficient".

And a definate 'no' to doing it all in a single day, once a week. The main reason being that people will get carried away with this shit in a single day.. Doing something stupid such as putting the incline bench on the lowest setting, doing 2-3 sets, then clicking the next level up, doing a few sets, and working the degrees up until they're almost 90 degrees thinking they need to hit that tiny portion just below the clavicle. LOL!! Trust me, I've seen it a lot.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 12-19-2006 at 09:06 AM..

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Old 12-19-2006, 10:08 AM   #53
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^^^^Well motor end plates is what I like to call lab talk. I could point to a number of guys over at bb.com who love to engage in endless pages of lab talk. But I got news for you, you can know how a muscle works inside and out, backwards and forwards, and still not get it done in the gym.

The guys writing the textbooks do NOT know the best way to train someone. The guys doing the studies do not know. Hell, to me that means they don't even know the best way to APPROACH the study. The guy who has built the perfect bodybuilder's body with splits and "different angles" and all that...even he does not know until he has applied and thus refined those methods on hundreds of trainees. Which doesn't happen much.

I think it was Glenn Pendlay who said that Medscape shoud be asking us (meaning him, not me ) and not the other way around.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:14 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Eric
I could point to a number of guys over at bb.com who love to engage in endless pages of lab talk.
You mean hypertrophy-specific.com, don't ya?
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:20 AM   #55
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Oh yeah, there two. It's the same guys .

Somehow they never seem to get around to actually talking about working out.
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:54 AM   #56
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Yeah it's lab talk but it's probaly the only good reason to hit different angles on a regular basis other than boredom.

Honestly though, power lifter's training regimes are influenced by getting the nervous system stimulated by bringing more end plates to the party. Possibly irrevelent in terms of bodybuilding though.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:24 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ozzi
Honestly though, power lifter's training regimes are influenced by getting the nervous system stimulated by bringing more end plates to the party.
Powerlifters don't use multiple anges... And in my case, I guess you can say multiple variations instead. Refer to my journal. I got a 405 bench from NOT incorperating any angles aside from the occational ME incline presses, which I don't really care for. Since we (powerlifters) work with such a high intensity (% of 1 RM), the nervous system gets MORE than its share of being stimulated to become more efficient. Bodybuilders are the predominant ones who use multiple angles, not powerlifters because it really doesn't IMO help with strength.

The best way to increase strength for the big three:

1) Pay your dues under the bar with the actual lifts, mainly with different phases of volume and intensity such as Bill Starr's 5x5 or Korte's 3x3.

Korte's 3x3 as well as Bill Starr's advanced 5x5 employs Phase I is a high volume phase, while Phase II is the competition phase. Only uses the actual lifts, completely different from Westside/Conjugate powerlifting. Squat, Bench, Deadlift three times a week. Nothing else.

2) Do variations of those actual lifts, and incorperate max effort (high intensity), dynamic (speed) effort, and repetition days. Remember that POWER = DISTANCE x SPEED, which makes this form of training extremely effective. Again, multiple angles certainly aren't employed with the frequency you suggest.

Conjugate powerlifting works with predominately flat bench on upper days trying to strengthen sticking points. Examples: floor, 2-4 board, close grip, and banded bench presses. I think incline presses don't help with strength, but I do them to break up my routine. Same thing for lower days. Squatting examples: low-medium box, front, olympic, wide parallel squats. Deadlifts: sumo, conventional, rack, sldl's, and plate/platform.

Now, I know there's a hundred different ways to gain strength for the big three: Which is what powerlifting is. Almost every piece of literature I've read suggests the two options I presented are the most effective for increasing your 1 RM's for benching, squatting, and deadlifting. There's the occational program such as Shieko's Russian Bench Routine that includes a little more angles to be worked, but that's more of a specific "get your bench only" up program.
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