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'getting bigger and smaller at the same time'

Training discussion on 'getting bigger and smaller at the same time', within the Bodybuilding Forum; I love lifting, but it's not my main deal - as someone's probably guessed from my handle, I've been lifting ...


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Old 08-31-2007, 11:14 AM   #1
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I love lifting, but it's not my main deal - as someone's probably guessed from my handle, I've been lifting heavy to get ready for my senior wrestling season. Right now I weigh 213 lbs. - from 186, so I guess I've added some respectable mass. Unfortunately I've got to cut down to 189 for the season, so it doesn't look like I'll be able to eat as much as I'd need to for the DFHT 5x5, which I was planning on doing for the fall.

Basically, though, my problem is that I'm not too experienced in this sort of thing: how to lose fat - I want to show up in-season (Nov. 28) at maybe 197 or so - while continuing to add muscle mass, if I can hack it. So is there a way to balance this, and still get caloric excess while losing fat? I've only really looked at the "add mass" side of things and never had to lose fat while I was doing it.

Any help would be much appreciated. (Oh, and the title is taken from one of the stickies, just to say that yes, I did read all of them, and the golden nuggets of Pendlay knowledge therein.)
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:55 PM   #2
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Assuming you are a natty (natural bodybuilder) it would be pretty hard to gain slabs of mass and burn fat at the same time I think.Alot of people swear by the timed carb approach,heres the link http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3398 ,others say full keto diets are the way to go.Either way I think it requres very careful manipulation of your carb intake and of course good solid programming too.I myself have very limited experience with the Timed carb approach, but will say that whilst doing it I still managed to gain lots of strength as the fat slowly melted away.I'd definately recommend trying it.Hope this helps.

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Old 09-03-2007, 11:28 PM   #3
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Sooo.. 16 pounds in about 3 months..just over a pound loss a week.

Under more normal circumstances, which would be focusing on the fat loss, one would be eating in a caloric deficit. However, being able to improve muscle mass whilst in a caloric deficit, while not being completely impossible, is still very hard to achieve.

Eating at a caloric surplus is of course the primary and most effective method when wanting to increase mass. You need fuel to grow. But along with a caloric surplus, usually comes some fat gain.

Now, the thing is, it IS possible to both eat at a caloric surplus, improve muscle mass, AND drop body fat simultaneously. But the sad fact of that approach is, you must be very accountable with your diet (and it also helps to have already tracked your maintenance levels prior to this in order to better be able to determine your caloric needs for attempting this approach). And even with strict accountability with diet, it's a very slow process. So the amount of muscle you *could* gain during that three month period wouldn't be all that much.

I'd say there's a choice you need to make. Either go into a slight caloric deficit, adding in some or more cardio, and eat and train in order to preserve the muscle you already have while dropping your BF. OR you can go ahead and continue to work on building mass (keeping your diet in check, not just eating everything in sight) and go with a higher weight class for wrestling this year.

If you're mainly just bound and determined to hit 197 for a specific weight class, you also need to keep in mind that if you were to actually hit the 'sweet spot' of simultaneous muscle growth and fat loss, the scale isn't going to move much. Sure, you'd be leaner, but you'd still weigh about the same.

Last edited by IronKitten; 09-04-2007 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:11 AM   #4
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Heh. I wish I could just go one higher. The next one up is 215, and I'd need to be 230 right now for that.

Anyway - it sounds like it makes more sense to work on preserving the muscle I do have and just cutting the fat, rather than trying to also add muscle. Like you said, it wouldn't be a big weight difference, and then I'd be stuck at 213 and have a much harder time getting to 189.

So I guess I'd need to be eating in a caloric deficit and working in some cardio. Cardio's fine - I wrestle three times a week and run around three times a week. But if I were doing this - lowering my calories into 'deficit' amounts and doing loads of cardio - wouldn't I risk losing some of that muscle? How do I just preserve it, nevermind adding to it?
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:01 AM   #5
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There is always a risk of losing some muscle while dieting and it can end up being a highly individual thing as far as what works best for you but generally speaking, make sure you dont drop cals too drastically. Keep your protein intake where it is and gradually reduce your carb and/or fat intake (especially later in the day). Continue training with weights to keep your muscles stimulated and you should be able to hang onto what muscle you have while dropping B/F levels. Throwing in a higher calorie day once every 7-10 days is a trick some people use to keep their metabolism from slowing down.

good luck!

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