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Old 07-10-2008, 02:11 PM   #11
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.cook View Post
Saying that DL is good for grip training is like saying curls are good for the lower back because you have to stay tight to counter balance the weight...

Trust me, anyone that knows about grip training will NEVER tell you to just go dead lift. It isn't sufficient. In fact, I would say rock climbing is FAR superior as a grip trainer, but it doesn't make much sense to prescribe that either.
I didn't say DLs were the best way to train grip but I was disagreeing with you saying that doing DL's will basically do nothing for your grip. I don't know what you do with your grip but what I do is do more DLs. So training my grip by doing DLs transfers very well to ... using my grip strength for DLs.

If you're into some UFC, or climbing or whatever else then sure, train other ways. Or maybe you just want to be able to turn rocks to dust. I don't know?

Anyways, I've never run into a situation where doing DLs with double over grip hasn't been enough and I think this is the case for most people that train as much double overhand as they can.

And I don't think your curls --> back strength as compared to DL's --> grip strength is an equivalent analogy at all.

Don't take this as offensive but thats my 2 cents.

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Old 07-10-2008, 06:52 PM   #13
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well i think eating bacon is a very good way to train grip.









(joke)
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:14 PM   #14
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Why didn't I think of that?
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:23 PM   #15
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yeah but that is only good if your in a room full of bacon lovers
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:44 AM   #16
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like the first page of this thread
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:45 AM   #17
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aaaaawwwww shit. forgot to post the link

http://www.bodybuilding.net/training...t=wrist+roller
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_worker View Post
I didn't say DLs were the best way to train grip but I was disagreeing with you saying that doing DL's will basically do nothing for your grip. I don't know what you do with your grip but what I do is do more DLs. So training my grip by doing DLs transfers very well to ... using my grip strength for DLs.
Well, there are things you can do that wil certainly bring your grip up much faster than your DL. In fact, my grip strength is pretty far out in front of my DL, which would make just training DL and nothing else... well, it would make it de-training for me. Anyway, dead lifting isn't really considered a test of grip strength. Powerlifters aren't deadlifting to improve grip strength, grip strength is necessary for DL's. That was kinda my point. That is where I was drawing my back/curls example from. Lower back strength may be a requirement of heavy curls, but it is not the target of heavy curls, and if your mindset tells you that the way to train your back up is to do more curls at heavier weight... you are right, there is SOME training effect there, however it isn't the target and it is a pretty inneficient way to develop grip strength.

If the only thing you are ever worried about is how much you can put on a bar and hold, then maybe you wouldn't need to train outside that parameter. I compete in strongman, and I put my hands through a lot of work. Heavy farmers, tire flips, stone loads, keg carries, hand over hand rope pulls, axle deadlifts... pretty much everything in strongman starts at the hands. With the exception of something like the yoke walk, I'm drawing a blank as to any events that are truly "grip free." Things like tire flip and stone loads are open hand, finger-tip strength. Deadlift doesn't help that. However, that fingertip strength will translate over to deadlift. In fact, in my experience, just about any OTHER kind of grip training vastly helps your grip on deadlift, while the supporting grip of a standard bar deadlift simply isn't sufficient to help anything else.
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:52 AM   #19
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Well I definately see what you're saying especially in relation to your strongman style training. I'm sure there will be a day when I need to train my grip some other way to complete my deads without straps ( I don't use them now but I mean...the weight is always increasing). When that day comes or if I see it approaching, I will start training my grip in other methods.

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Old 07-14-2008, 10:00 AM   #20
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IW,

The other thing you need to realize is that there is a weird feedback mechanism in your body that will actually limit your pulls based on grip strength. Ever wonder why most people pull more with straps? The moment your hands start to give out that "I'm losing it" signal hits your nervous system and will cause the rest of your body to do a bail. I'm not exactly sure what the evolutionary reason for this is other than maybe it was a bad idea for cavemen to pick up a big rock that they may drop and maim themselves with So by training your grip up, you may actually increase your DL. Sounds backwards perhaps, but you can see this same mechanism in the squat and other places. I know Comrade Pavel talks about the power of making a fist (and clenching your butt cheeks as well, but I won't touch on that). The difference between a squat where you are just trying to hold the bar in place on your back and the squat where you are trying to squeeze the knurling on the bar flat... probably equals out to a good 20-30lbs of weight for most. It's that nervous system response to the pronounced need for nervous system input, in this case it is provided by the tension in a crushing fist. In a DL it works the opposite. As your grip fails out, your whole body gets that "failing out" message and kinda poops out well shy of what you CAN do.

There are probably some mental measures that one can take against this reaction, but I would be so brave as to claim that MAYBE 5% of the population or less can simply think their nervous system into action. Bruce Lee would have been a great example of this. I would say that some truly great athletes in all arenas also show this quality (which is part of what makes them great, and the rest of us a mere mortal )
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