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Training discussion on Gym do's and don'ts?, within the Bodybuilding Forum; every once in a blue i calm myself down though. i find myself finishing a good weight for all the ...


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Old 06-03-2008, 09:43 AM   #21
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every once in a blue i calm myself down though. i find myself finishing a good weight for all the reps. and when i put it down im like a milisecond away from shouting "MUTHAFUCKA"!!!!!!!!! while staring at he weight lol

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Old 06-03-2008, 09:53 AM   #22
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^^ Hmmm perhaps I am mistaken, but I do believe it was 90. not that 30 more seconds is going to make a huge difference.
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:56 AM   #23
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I believe they recover about 90% in 90 seconds, and will recover the rest of the way within the next 90 seconds which doesn't seem significant. If intensity is very high, then it is very significant. Depends on conditioning also...among other things.

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Old 06-03-2008, 11:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MONSTAFACE View Post
find the prettiest girls you can. ask them if the need a spot, and cop as many feels as possible..............................just kidding
Funny. Although everyone would really be looking at me then, when my wife walks in and kicks me square in the nuts. She doesn't hold anything back now since she's 3 months pregnant.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to go with 60-90sec since I was training at home with high intensity, took a max of 30sec. If I see my self struggling then I'll increase it to 2min.

How do you guys work out with no music? If I didn't have my I-pod blasting Disturbed, Avenged Sevenfold, Seather, etc I wouldn't be able to lift anything. Probably since before every hockey game I had, we would blast heavy metal and scream at each other. By the time we all got onto the ice we were ready to tear someone's head off.
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Old 06-03-2008, 11:52 AM   #25
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This rest period stuff is way off base. There's more to it than local muscular recovery. It all depends on your goals and what you are doing. Only ever resting up to 90 minutes because of some rule....very very bad idea. If you only rest that long...intesnsity will be SACRIFICED. Volume will be sacrificed. Progress in general will be sacrificed.

That is a "bodybuilding" prescription and even then it is only one detail to be manipulated. Anybody who's only ever rested that long between sets...start resting as long as you need to get the job done and watch your progress skyrocket. But those type of short rest periods are based on hormone response and I think mostly acute growth hormone response rather than "recovery" although I'm sure a bunch of people have made the "complete recovery" claim to back up their on size fits all recommendations. But I have a big problem with focusing on acute hormone responses rather than what really matters: CHRONIC RESPONSE and ADAPTATION.

You don't need any of that. Just stop following rules nobody can prove to you and let experience by your guide. Anybody that thinks they can lift some maximal weights only ever resting 90 seconds....ain't ever lifted maximal weights (relatively speaking). Let the intensity and volume be your guide.

If you want "strength" and the mass gains that can come with is you're going to want 3 to 5 minutes. Anything less is NOT strength training at it's best.

Some people will say that certain individuals train themselves to use much shorter rest periods being "highly advanced" atheletes and that they can increase their strength without increasing rest periods. It's bullshit. Something has to give and you are not going to ever get full performance from a system that may require up to 5 minutes to fully rev up with a rest period of 1 or 2 minutes. ANYBODY would be able to lift more with more rest in that case.

There has been hardly any difference found between rest periods of 1 to 2 mintues. So 90 seconds won't be much different than 1 minute or 2 minutes. To say the the muscles recover as much as they are going to...I don't know where that comes from. Lactic acid isn't going to automatically clear that fast. ATP for sure won't replenish in that time...need at least 3 minutes or more. CNS recovery takes the longest of all.

In general for strength you want 3 to 5 minutes for optimal recovery. Reducing rest periods can be a goal in itself for some short term strenth gains and enhanced recovery but this myth about short rest periods has got to go. It is nowhere near the truth.

Unless you are using a protocal that is calling for specific rest periods or manipulation thereof...rest as long as you need to get the job done.

Last edited by EricT; 06-03-2008 at 12:23 PM..

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:22 PM   #26
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^^ your going to have to explain that a little more. I was reffering to rest periods when trying to build mass/strength, so it was more or less a goal specific suggestion. That being said, of course conditioning comes into play, but I dont know anyone who hops back on the bench when they can still hardly breath from the set before ...

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Old 06-03-2008, 12:32 PM   #27
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I don't know what mass/strength is as opposed to strenght/mass. At some point is strength is among your goals, then everyone one will have to train more specifically to meet that goal. You can't spend a whole carrer tyring to train in a "general" mass/strength way...and continue to get stronger and at some point that will prob mean you won't get much bigger.

But if your goals are generalized and you are at a point where your training can be generalized then, imo, a generalized recommendation should be around 3 minutes or more. Generally speaking. Habitually training with shorter rest periods than that across the board is not condusive with having strength as a goal.

Ninety seconds as a blanket rule is simply not enough for recovery when it comes to strength training. To say that it is always enough for "mass" would be missing the boat as well. Certainly, with so many people doing 5x5's, I hope their not all just resting 90 seconds between sets. Good lord that ain't the way to get the most out of it.

Time periods are one parameter. Just like volume is one parameter. Density, intensity, etc...

Even if you are a guy that "doesn't care about strength" to say that one specific rest period is always what anyone needs for mass would be like saying one specific volume is all that is needed. There are too many factors involved to make a rule like that. You need what you need.

I don't know what else I can say about it though...

I mean I can break it down into recovery periods if that will help but I don't want it to be read like a bilble...it's just general guidelines and a lot depends on the individual:

0-30 seconds
~50% metabolic recovery

30 seconds to 2 minutes
~90% metabolic recovery

2-3 minutes
Near complete metabolic recovery

3-5 minutes
Near complete neural recovery

5-10 minutes
Complete neural recovery

Metabolic recovery is a catchall for all the machinery involved other than neural components.

If you goal is strength and mass then there are going to be parts of your training day that you rest longer..at least 3 or more minutes and other parts where the rest period may be shorter depending on the exercise and how much muscle comes into play. But even then the goal should be to get the volume you intend at the weight your want so rest what you need to do that. Obviously you will not have to rest as long after a set for front shoulder raises as you will after a set of squats.

But I'll just be blunt. 90 seconds is a SHORT rest period. That is the province of bodybuilders who refuse to work any lower than 6 to 12 reps and "don't care about strength". If you really don't care about strength and want to use higher reps to just hypertrophy then you probably ARE best off to use shorter rest periods. But if the word strength is in your goals along with "mass" then you will have to rest longer a lot of the time.

Last edited by EricT; 06-03-2008 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:47 PM   #28
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I don't know what mass/strength is as opposed to strenght/mass.
I have no idea what your talking about here. But for a be/inter lifter there are no distinctions between the two.

As for the time period, I was reffering to something I read prob. 10+ years ago. So I was a little off, peronsally I dont think I've ever rested over 2min, and I've had no problem adding wt to the bar, or my frame.

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If you goal is strength and mass then there are going to be parts of your training day that you rest longer..at least 3 or more minutes and other parts where the rest period may be shorter depending on the exercise and how much muscle comes into play.
I gotta say i dont agree with that either, perhaps if your a power lifter doing max excersion lifts you would need more then 3 minutes. But why would you need more then 2 on a working set? It would seem to reason if you do, then no matter how much you rest, your not going to recover much more, and then your really just working to heavy and you need to drop the wieght.

I agree i was off a bit with 90 seconds for strength purposes, but i dont see why you would need more then 2 or so minutes tops.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:57 PM   #29
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I disagree absolutely and competelty with almost every single thing you said. I've really said all I can...people can believe who they like.

The statement about not recovering any more after a certain time period and lifting too heavy...that's just nonsense, hrdgain. This is so way off I don't see the point in arguing with your about it. Just a little bit of research from anyone reading this thread will lay most of this to rest.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:08 PM   #30
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I'm not arguing, nor am i jockeying to see who everyone will "believe". I'm just sharing my experience ... its a friendly conversation eric, please dont take it any other way. If you have more info on the subject for me to read i will gladly do so, and you know this. We are here to better ourselves, not argue about who is right.

Quote:
The statement about not recovering any more after a certain time period and lifting too heavy...that's just nonsense, hrdgain. This is so way off I don't see the point in arguing with your about it. Just a little bit of research from anyone reading this thread will lay most of this to rest.
As for this, perhaps my wording was off, I'm not sure, its hard to tell when I'm typing, but I see validity in it.

What i picture from your example, is someone on bench pushing themselves to failure or past for one or two reps, then thinking if they just wait five minutes and do it again, then they are building strength. Extreme, yes, but you and I both know that happens, and its not safe. And thats what i was cautioning against when I mentioned going to heavy, and rest intervals.
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