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Training discussion on Gym do's and don'ts?, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Originally Posted by hrdgain81 I gotta say i dont agree with that either, perhaps if your a power lifter doing ...


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Old 06-03-2008, 02:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by hrdgain81 View Post
I gotta say i dont agree with that either, perhaps if your a power lifter doing max excersion lifts you would need more then 3 minutes. But why would you need more then 2 on a working set? It would seem to reason if you do, then no matter how much you rest, your not going to recover much more, and then your really just working to heavy and you need to drop the wieght.

I agree i was off a bit with 90 seconds for strength purposes, but i dont see why you would need more then 2 or so minutes tops.
matt,

let me give you an example of one of my workouts...

on my old program, here is an example of one of my lower body workouts:

Snatch Grip Deadlifts: 215 lbs x 6 reps x 3 sets
Rack Deadlifts: 245 lbs x 6 reps x 2 sets
Glute Ham Raises: 8 reps x 3 sets
Static Holds (Grip Work): 30 seconds x 3 sets
Ab Work: chose 3 exercises and supersetted them

now, when i did this program..

i rested for ATLEAST 3 minutes between each set for both snatch grip deadlifts and rack deadlifts.

then, when it came to glute ham raises, i took only 90-120 seconds rest intervals...static holds required more rest so i used to rest for 2-2.5 minutes. but then when it came to ad work, i barely rested for 60 seconds.

its all relative to the exercise you are doing....

i don't consider myself to be a powerlifter but i am a strength trainee and probably more of a strongman lifter. so, when i do ME work, i sometimes rest for upto 5-6 minutes between sets. but then when i am doing metabolic training i dont rest for more than 2-2.5 minutes unless i absolutely need to.

you cant generalize. i used to be one of those guys who thought he was resting for 3 minutes when in actuality it was only 30-60 seconds (sometimes listening to music distracts you and you lose your focus). it was only when i actually made it a practice of bringing a stop watch to the gym did i learn the true importance of taking proper rest.

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Old 06-03-2008, 02:17 PM   #32
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I didn't mean to imply that either on of use were jockeying. It's just that after a while it gets to the point where both people have presented there opinions and it gets pointless to keep arguing. And I don't mean arguing as fighting...just discussing to differing points of view. And I hate to always be writing novels to explain all my views and and look like a bore .

But when people make certain qualitative satements, like the one about lifting too heavy if you need more rest..that gets into a very complicated discussion...

So let me try to some it up with an equally short statement. If you can lift a certain weight at a certain volume and maintain good quality...then it ain't too heavy. Remember that not all programs are done with intensity cycling like a 5x5. If a rest allows you to lift more weight and get the volume you want...DO IT.

Even when you get into the tables that correlate rest periods with intensity or rep maximums you get something like this as "optimal":

<1 min: >13 RM
1-2 min: 11-13 RM
2-3 min: 8-10 RM
3-5 min: 5-7 RM
>5 min: <5 RM

Now I wouldn't go by that as more than a very general guideline because like Anuj was saying it's the exercise not just the reps. But it should not escape your notice where the general mass/strength thing lies. That is going to be, for all intents and purposes the 5 to 7 RM range...bascially the range that coincides with 5x5 training. Or even 4x6. Of course there are a some slightly lower intensities that can fall into this as well. But you're looking at 3 to 5 minutes basically in terms of "work sets".

My point before about strength/mass I've already made in the Strength and Hypertrophy thread so I won't paraphrase all that again here.


Last edited by EricT; 06-03-2008 at 03:32 PM..

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:17 AM   #33
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That makes much more sense now eric. And I took your comment about "arguing" wrong. I tend to think in terms of "me" and not "everyone" with this stuff, and I need to get out of that habit. Just because I've never really taken more then 2min rest intervals, doesnt mean others shouldn't, that was shortsited of me.

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Old 06-04-2008, 08:23 AM   #34
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Well it's the same thing with me using the word argue. I don't mean it in a negative sense but I have to realize that others often do and choose my words carefully .

At the same time, though, it REALLY pays to let go of your preconceptions and assumptions about things. You say you've never rested more than two minutes and you have no problems. BUT your assuming a lot. Unless you ever try other rest periods you'll never know the possiblilities. Also, even if way back when you rested longer and didn't need it...that has nothing to do with now.

Fatigue management and stress management is something that needs to go on within the workout not just outside of it. The kind of rest periods you take will dictate the kind of fatigue you carry out of the workout and your state of recovery.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:27 PM   #35
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I believe they recover about 90% in 90 seconds, and will recover the rest of the way within the next 90 seconds which doesn't seem significant. If intensity is very high, then it is very significant. Depends on conditioning also...among other things.
I agree. I need more time between sets after doing 3 heavy squats than after doing ten medium-weight ones.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:37 PM   #36
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Thanks for the help again guys, didn't mean to get every one all riled up. Went with an approximate 3min weight in between sets, donít have a stop watch so I had to use the clock across the room. Worked out nice since I was able to complete all the reps with more weight than I thought, struggling on the last set but still had good form.

Wasnít sure about the Ripptoes program since its only three exercises a day, but now I know how stupid I was. Iím walking around work like a robot and just want to cry when I get to steps. Tried to get up out of my chair and ended up falling over. The program definitely has my vote and Iíve only completed one day. Should have listened to Pitty a month ago when he suggested I start with it. Thanks again everyone.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:48 PM   #37
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Nobody was riled up. A forum in which everyone agrees with everyone is a forum to avoid. Most people tend to agree with whatever they read once upon a time on bb.com...I tend to say something different which means I'm the one asked to back up what I say. Hey..somebody provide some backup on the 90 seconds isn't sigficant thing and the idea that you nervous system and the phosphogen system doesn't play a role in your ability and how the lactic acid buildup doesn't effect how much volume you can do. I mean something other than "this is what I do". Or not.

I just tend to get a little irritated by the continual insistence that one and a half minutes is pretty much all you need, lol. Good lord that's a short rest period for "strength/mass". 80 to 85 percent by the way is pretty high intensity. Not that you need that phosphagen system or your cns recovery to lift a weight or anything...oh boy.

Nah, just rest as much as you needed. Much to big a deal being made about rest periods. It's long term chronic adapation to progressive overload you are looking for. Not a rest period formula. Just try to keep it in some type of consistent range but don't work in a bodybuilding range when your are on a strength
program.

The soreness will get better as you adapt but if it is too much you can do your squats lighter next time and then load again after that.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:57 PM   #38
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Agreed, no riled up people over here. no worries. Just a word of caution, dont rest too long between sets ... you might fall asleep j/k

Now that i think about it eric, with all the different programs, and goals I've had, I wonder how much i actually did rest. Some of the SE routines were very short, and some of the 5x5's were slightly longer, and of course the depletion workouts were almost zero between movements. its an interesting thing to look at in terms of goals, and effects on the body. Like I said before if you have any articles on this I'd love to read them, my intrest is no peaked.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:57 PM   #39
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I might have to lighten the load on squats for Friday. Don't think the soreness will be gone by then. This was my first time doing squats on a rack instead of a sled or machine so I really had to fight to keep my knees in the same position, wanted to come together. The lighter weight will give me a chance to make sure my form is correct.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:07 PM   #40
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Like I said before if you have any articles on this I'd love to read them, my intrest is no peaked.
No, dude that's the problem. There is no one article you're going to get all the answers from. That's what is irritating to me and why I made the bb.com comment. It doesn't work that way. People are just regurgitating stuff they read in an article on time or a couple of times. You got to dig deep, cross reference, experiment, synthesize. I could probably point you to ten different writeups and you'd still have unanswered questions, I certainly still do.

I mean I will post some stuff...but most of this stuff is an amalgem...I don't know where is all comes from anymore. But I must caution against making a mountain out of a mole hill. Focusing a bunch of attention finding the "just right" rest periods for all the different things you do is probably not going to pay off in the long run. Some of this should be farily instinctual. Which is why it's beyond me that people would advice the rest period of someone looking for endurance to someone on a beginning strength program.

The goals of your training should dictate this stuff pretty well but keep in mind that the period you rest between sets can always be shortened for an endurance effect or lengthened for a strength effect. You got to look at the different parameters and put them on a continuum of importance. But for the love of God I wish people would stop paying word service to the words strength and intensity without really MEANING it. Peoples real goals become clear in the choices they make.

I shudder to think what would happen to people when they are not relying on intensity cycling to get used to these rest periods before making a run at loading the bar. It'll hit you like a ton of bricks if you start going balls to the wall in terms of intensity and only manipulate volume. Likewise the idea that and extra 90 seconds wouldn't make a difference between getting that last one or two reps on your 5x5 sets and not getting them? That is just fantasy. And in the end, getting your reps, yeah, I think that is going to be more productive than sticking to one short rest period.

But I'll try to post some stuff, dude, haha.
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