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Old 01-29-2007, 01:22 PM   #1
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Default Help a runner

Hi this is my first post here. Don't shun me cause I'm not a hardcore lifter like most people here probably.

I'm a pretty hardcore runner looking to build a bit of mass. I'm captain of my track and cross country team so I run a lot. The reason for this is because during the spring track season (starts late march), I am moving events like the 800 and 400 which require a lot more anaerobic capacity than events in cross country (5k) and longer track events like the 1600 and 3200 which I used to run. A lot of the really good kids that do these shorter events lift a lot and are pretty big or toned. I lift every winter, and do it pretty sparingly over the summer during cross country training where I do ~60 miles per week and run up to 80 minutes every day. That's why it's hard for me to gain mass. But now, I run either a track workout or no more than 45 minutes everyday, with the exception of saturday where I run for 60-70 minutes all aerobic. So my weekly mileage is probably around 25-30 miles per week.

I've been doing a full body workout like every other day or two days. I don't think this is helping at all. I got stronger, but bigger, no. I always reach a plateau (which happens to be pretty low)

So, to make this short, could someone direct me to a good lifting routine and tell me what I could do to alter my running and whatever in order to compensate so I could gain some muscle and/or tone. I don't want to gain too much more weight (except that would be sweet if I could gain muscle and lose fat at the same time). Would I look different at all if I gained 5lbs of muscle in my upper body or no?

My body fat is 13.6% according to some crappy electronic probe thing some lady used on my arm. Some kids got ridiculous numbers like 3% so I don't know how accurate it is. 5'11" 150 lbs.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:38 PM   #2
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You run a lot....Which means you burn a lot of calories, so if you want to put on size you need to EAT a lot. I'm not even going to guess how many calories you would need to put on size, but if your running that much you might need 6000 - 8000 cals..This is just a guess, someone else might know better..

Once you do start to increase your calories, don't worry about getting fat, it just wont happen.

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Old 01-29-2007, 01:47 PM   #3
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EAT!... What is your cal. intake now? If you don't know, that could be a good indication that you are already malnourished.


I think 6000 is a little high to start with. I would start with 4000 cals first Then after a month take measurements and if nothing is growing or it is very minimum, add 500 cals. and after a month of eating 4500 cals. then look at it again and see what happens. If you're not eating right and working out/ running like you do, your body will try to make the best with what it has for nutrition and become very efficient at holding on to what is has, fat and some muscle, and burn just enough muscle and fat because you could be starving it. Read the nutrition, diet and bulking stickys, they will help.

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Old 01-29-2007, 03:04 PM   #4
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eat like they said and do ALOT of lower body, Especially cleans and calves, but dont neglect anything either. upper body gets more chicks then big calves. lol. my 2 cents.

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Old 01-29-2007, 03:14 PM   #5
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Running that much might be hard to eat like you should. Nobody wants to run for 80 minutes after forcefeeding some chicken and rice. What times do you normally run? Like the other guys suggested, we need some macro nutrients on a daily basis to help more. Post your routine too please...with reps and sets lol (inside joke)

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Old 01-29-2007, 04:06 PM   #6
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Do you mean you plan to switch back and forth between these different types of events? Or you're just going to do the shorter events?

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:42 PM   #7
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My goal this year is 4:35 for the 1600 (thats the time that made states last year) and <2:05 for the 800. I'm running the 800 because we have a really good 4x800 team going and I'm right on the edge and I don't wanna be the weak link. Longest I'm going to be doing is the 1600, I'm never going to run the 3200 again. A 1600 uses a lot of anaerobic system though, so most of my track workouts are like 8x400 to 12x400 at ~70s each with a minute rest. My best time for 5k is 17:54, 1600 is 4:51, and 800 is 2:08 my junior year, so I am better at shorter distances. It helps to look more intimidating on the line too :P

One thing, my friend on the xc team started weight lifting. He gained 15 pounds and did a lot of leg lifting and I think it took away from some of his slow twitch muscle, and he didn't get his PR in xc. So I'm not gonna do any leg lifting. I plan on doing a lot of core and upper body, though. I know squats are good and all I just don't think they'll help me unless I was doing only 400m and under. Another kid, who used to play football but hurt his back, started running and killed kids in cross country and track. He was strong and lifted a lot, and ran a 4:42 mile.

thanks for the info though, I definately do need to eat more. for breakfast I have good sized bowl of toasted oats or some other whole grain cereal, OJ and maybe toast. Lunch is a PPJ, granola bar, carton of chocolate milk and maybe some cookies (haha, i love cookies). dinner is whatever my mom makes, which is usually grilled chicken, salad, and rice. She makes good stuff. and I snack all day on random stuff.

Ok so a normal day looks like:

Track practice - 30-40 minute run, OR workout 2x/week (warm up, 8x400, cool down). Long run saturday (60-70 mins)

After practice:
5x25 Ab workout (all kinds of crunches)
-every other day
3x8 bench @ 115-135 lbs (shutup i know)
3x10 curls. One set hammer curls, one regular, other that twisty one 20lb dumbells
3x8 lat pulldown

-every 3 days
Inclined bench @ 80 lbs
Lateral fly dumbbell
Rows

Should I do some back workouts? What stuff am I missing and how should I alter it besides eating more? Oh yes, should I take protein shakes? thanks for the help guys.


-edit-
This is my senior year and last year of track coming up, and I'm not doing cross country again so I don't care about long distance anymore. Only 400-1600m races.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:48 PM   #8
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I wouldn't be to worried about losing slow twitch fibres, it's quite hard to train slow twitch to fast twitch.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:53 AM   #9
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Guest, gotcha. I was thinking you were going to do both in which case I would say building mass was a waste of time! But I don't think many people really can do both well although it obviously happens sometimes.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:45 PM   #10
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Whey protein! Carbs and five to six meals a day! set a good lifting program for yourself!
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