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HST dilema

Training discussion on HST dilema, within the Bodybuilding Forum; I'd like your input on this. I am in my first week of 5's ending my 1ad,m5aa cycle in my ...


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Old 09-13-2005, 09:15 AM   #1
hrdgain81
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Default HST dilema

I'd like your input on this. I am in my first week of 5's ending my 1ad,m5aa cycle in my second week of 5's. I will be opting to go with another two weeks of 5's instead of doing negs.

here is the dilema, the second two weeks of 5's will be my first two weeks of pct. I know with HST you should take atleast a week off do decondition before moving on to another cycle. But i dont want to stop lifting durring pct for fear i will shrink ... what do you guys think?

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Old 09-13-2005, 05:46 PM   #2
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So you're saying that after the total 4 weeks of 5's you don't want to decondition before another HST cycle, right? Well, HST mentality is that you won't loose any muscle mass during the deconditioning, only the actual conditioning of your muscles from those heavy loads. That's the catch-22 with HST. Personally, I don't think you should decondition either. What you need to do is something other than HST, keeping those strength and muscle gains at their max. I recommend using the HST principles and coming up with something on your own. I think maybe switching gears totally and trying some 10 sets of 5, 10 sets of 4, 10 sets of 3 would be a great way to continue your progress. I've got some great workouts besides the already explained AGVT that's right up your alley. AGVT is an excellent choice as well. I wouldn't recommend the 5x5 since HST has that already covered. Here's a great writeup of 10x3 by Chad Waterbury...T-Nation.com:
Quote:
Mighty 10 x 3
If I could only use one set/rep parameter for the rest of my training days, I'd choose the 10 x 3 method. Iíve yet to utilize another set of training parameters that lead to as much hypertrophy. Half of my ABBH program is based on this method and I must say that more than half of the results are from this method alone. The benefits of 10 x 3 include:
1. Sufficient Load Selection: The 10 x 3 method allows you to use a larger load than its mirror image, 3 x 10. With 10 x 3, a load equating to approximately 80% of your 1RM (one rep max) leads to greater improvements of intramuscular coordination along with increased recruitment of high-threshold motor units.
2. Fast Muscle Actions: Since the sets are extremely short (<6 seconds) and muscular failure isnít achieved, maximum speed can be maintained throughout the sets. This is important because greater speeds of muscle actions lead to greater recruitment of Type IIB and Type IIA muscle fibers that fall within the fast-fatigable motor units and fast fatigue-resistant motor units, respectively.
3. Manageable Fatigue: Oftentimes, trainees feel invigorated after finishing all ten sets of three reps with 80% of their 1RM. This is a very important aspect that leads to high levels of motivation. Ten sets of squats to screaming failure sucks motivation levels out of your body quicker than a porn star hopped up on Columbian crops. But 10 x 3 training allows you to leave the gym with minimal fatigue and maximum motivation.

Powerful 4 x 6
For maximum hypertrophy, I prefer a set/rep volume of 24 to 50. With total-body training, I stay on the lower end of that spectrum. While 10 x 3 is magical, I canít speak highly enough of 5 x 5 training with 85% of your 1RM, but the total number of sets in a single session must be minimized to avoid excess fatigue. Therefore, I slightly alter the 5 x 5 set/rep scheme to 4 x 6.
Iíve found that 4 x 6 training will lead to as much hypertrophy, but with one less set per muscle grouping. The lack of this extra set makes an appreciable difference once total-body programs are undertaken.
The benefits of 4 x 6 training are very similar to 10 x 3, if proper loads are utilized. Once again, I prefer to use 80% of 1RM for best results. This load selection allows for proper motor unit recruitment, fast muscle actions, minimal fatigue and adequate volume.

Putting It All Together
Now weíve made it to the Waterbury Method training parameters. You might be thinking, "Since you extol the benefits of 10 x 3 training, why donít you just use those parameters for all exercises?" Simple: ten sets for every muscle group in a single session is too damn much! Such a technique would equate to 180 sets utilizing 80% of 1RM in a single week. Not good, unless youíre at the super-elite level. Even then, itís pretty questionable.
Therefore, my newest system consists of 10 x 3 training for a single muscle grouping within each session. The rest of the workout is composed of 4 x 6 training in order to keep the volume levels manageable while still inducing strength and hypertrophy.
The sneaky part of this program is the continuous switching of 10 x 3 training with different body parts. For instance, one workout will utilize a lower-body movement with 10 x 3; another workout consists of upper-body pressing; the last workout consists of upper-body pulling. This breakdown works wonders for offsetting fatigue and nervous system boredom.

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Old 09-14-2005, 06:45 AM   #3
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looks pretty good man. I like the concept, I will work up a schedual for it and post it, do you mind looking over it for me 0311?
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:57 AM   #4
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what about Dogg Crapp training? or would that be too much.
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:31 AM   #5
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I havent looked at DC in a while, but i think the reason i didnt do it last time was because it is heavey on the negatives. I lift by myself so negatives will be difficult.
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Old 09-16-2005, 08:42 AM   #6
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Ok so this is what I was thinking, I want to keep dual factor training style intact, so I will be doing full body 3 times a week. Sticking to mostly compound movements here is what i want to do.

Monday
incline smith machine 10x3
hack squat 4x6
dead lift 4x6
standing shoulder press 4x6
pull ups 4x6
wieghted dips 4x6
preacher curl 4x6
standing calf raises 4x6

As i move through the week, the 10x3 will work its way down the list (wednesday of that week will be hack squat 10x3). I may not use it for curls, dips, or calf raises, but we will see. how does this look?
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Old 09-16-2005, 06:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdgain81
Ok so this is what I was thinking, I want to keep dual factor training style intact, so I will be doing full body 3 times a week. Sticking to mostly compound movements here is what i want to do.

Monday
incline smith machine 10x3
hack squat 4x6
dead lift 4x6
standing shoulder press 4x6
pull ups 4x6
wieghted dips 4x6
preacher curl 4x6
standing calf raises 4x6

As i move through the week, the 10x3 will work its way down the list (wednesday of that week will be hack squat 10x3). I may not use it for curls, dips, or calf raises, but we will see. how does this look?
Holy shit dude, that's ALOT!!

I would split that up a lot more or else you'll be using lighter weight by the end, which isn't what you want.

I know you want to do full body's, which I prefer as well, but that's too much. You might just want an upper/lower body split since the 10x3 and 4x6 really takes a toll. The only other option is to drop your biceps/triceps exercises down to 2 sets of 8 (heavy) or something.

Here's one from Chad Waterbury from T-Nation.com:

DAY 1
Barbell Back Squats: 10x3, 70 seconds rest.

4x6 supersets, 60 seconds rest.
A1 Dips
A2 Bent-Over Barbell or Dumbbell Rows

B1 Skull Crushers
B2 Standing Barbell Curls

C1 Hanging Leg Raises

DAY 2
15-20 minutes of medium intensity jogging or GPP work

DAY 3
Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press: 10x3, 60 seconds rest

4x6, 60 seconds rest
A1 Romanian Deadlift
A2 Standing Barbell Military Press

B1 Standing Calf Raises
B2 ;) High Pulls (Barbell)

C1 Triceps French Presses

DAY 4
Same as Day 2

DAY 5
Chin-ups: 10x3, 70 seconds
Note: Utilize a supinated (palms up), shoulder-width hand grip

4x6, 60 seconds rest
A1 Decline Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
A2 Standing Hammer Curls

B1 Seated Calf Raises
B2 Glute/Ham Raises or Leg Curls

C1 Lunges
Note: No rest between legs

DAY 6
Same as Day 2

DAY 7
Off

Loading
Once youíve finished the first week of the program, the loading on all sets must be increased. Hereís how it all breaks down:
Week 2: 82.5% of 1RM for all lifts
Week 3: 85% of 1RM for all lifts
Week 4: 87.5% of 1RM for all lifts

I changed some of the exercises he had though such as high pulls instead of upright rows. High pulls are waay better for stimulating both your traps and medial deltoids. You can also go heavier without worry of getting injured. This is all full body, but a little bit more practical. The 10x3 exercises are the best selections to use.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:05 AM   #8
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I will need to do more research on this. But that method looks pretty good. I am feeling the dual factor, not to mention actually training for hypertrophy. Its working out pretty good so far.
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:27 PM   #9
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The only reason why I say that it's a lot is because I'm assuming that during your HST 5 RM's you were doing at the most 3 total sets per exercise. So, going from 15 total reps to 24/30 reps is almost double the volume. The method above has a lot less exercises than what you put down because it'll increase your total intensity and strength output. The Waterbury Method above is three full body workouts per week. Now, during your PCT your goal is to maintain your strength/mass you attained throughout your ph cycle...Hopefully, increasing your gains. That's why I believe it's best to do less per day, rather than doing a ton of volume where your intenstiy and strength will be sacrificed.
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:58 AM   #10
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That looks like it will work for me 0311. I dont want to lose anything in pct, although I am not sure how much i've actually grown.

We will see this saterday how this cycle panned out. oh and what are high pulls? I thought that was just another way of saying standing row ...
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