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Lifting slowly

Training discussion on Lifting slowly, within the Bodybuilding Forum; This trainer was showing me something about lifting really slowly and then holding for about 3-5 seconds when whichever muscle ...


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Old 02-01-2010, 05:58 PM   #1
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Default Lifting slowly

This trainer was showing me something about lifting really slowly and then holding for about 3-5 seconds when whichever muscle your using is fully contracted. It hurts like shit, and I was wondering what the purpose of that was? Is it more for size gain or strength gain, or is it just a load of shit?
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:02 AM   #2
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It is beyond me why a trainer would show you something like that yet you would still not know what it is far. This is why I complain about trainers and it keeps being justified by this kind of thing. A clear reason should always be stated.

It's for size. There is actually a thing called "superslow" training which has been branded. It's about time under tenison. Don't waste your time with it.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:27 PM   #3
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Is it just not very effective?
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:57 PM   #4
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it's crap because it ditches load in favor of TUT as the basis for gains, i.e. lifting less slower is better than lifting more normally.

but yeah i'm sure it hurts like hell

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Old 02-02-2010, 06:26 PM   #5
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^^^Exactly.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:48 AM   #6
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Lightbulb There is medical / clinical backing to eccentrics

Im sorry if my spelling is off ahead of time.

Unfortunatly it appears that some of the people commenting need to go do some research. I recommend www.EXRX.net

Lets try to break it down as easy as we can.. I don't know your skill level or how long you've been doing this. Yet since your working with a trainer, I will assume your a beginner

- your muscles are strongest at mid contraction
- your muscles are weakest at the begining and at the end of contraction
- Using eccentric contractions (going slow on the way down, or away from the middle) will help to strengthen the muscle not only at mid contraction, but at the start and finish
- tempos commenly used, especially by professional body builders and physical/occupational therapist are:
- 1,1,3 - up on a 1 count, hold for a 1 count, go down on a 3
- 2,2,4 - up on a 2 count, hold for a 2 count, go down on a 4

THIS BUILDS STRENGTH! Mass will follow when your able to tolerate more weight and or cycling off to a 1,1,1 tempo after 90 days or so.

This method your trainer is teaching, is actually pretty good. Not only are they trying to strengthen the entire muscle; and not just the middle, but there also protecting you from injury since your going to be focusing more on form and feeling.

Things to think about:
- mind body connection - Frank Zane
- proper form
- controlling the weight
- feeling the pump/burn

You will be surprised how much strengh you may gain when you go back to the 1,1,1 tempo which is so commenly used.

If your more advanced/elite this can be coupled with low volume, high intensity training

Remember its HOW YOU LIFT not HOW MUCH OR HOW MANY

Good Luck it sounds like your off to a good start
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:02 AM   #7
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Lightbulb forgot a helpful link

Aditional reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentr...ic_contraction
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:22 AM   #8
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Thank you, but also, what your referring to brutikus, isn't the exact same as I was talking about. It was good information and thank you but, I was referring more to a 5,5,5. REEEAAALLLYY slow...But I will also keep what you said in mind, again, thank you.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:17 AM   #9
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Brutikus anybody can pull out individual evidences to support any kind of position.

However, this thread had nothing to do with eccentrics per se and was about super slow lifting..both concentric and eccentric.

Let's talk about some of the statements you made since you mentioned 'strength' and that is my area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brut
- your muscle are strongest at 'mid-contraction'
Mid-contraction. Really? Your muscles are? I'm sure that means something when it comes to curls, which is undoubtedly what you are thinking about, but I'd love for you to illustrate how the idea of mid-contraction ties into STRENGTH training like deadlifts, squats, etc...

When am I at 'mid-contraction' on deadlifts? I'd like to know. Now right at the knees and a bit above that region I am at the sticking region. That would be about the mid point in the bar path. Is that mid contraction? Which muscle is at mid-contraction? Maybe I can do eccentrics for that muscle or something.

Because that is when I am at a mechanical disadvantage. The sticking region. I am at my strongest point in the deadlift just at lockout. The top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brut
- You muscles are weakest at the beginning and end of contraction
Again with contractions. It's very confusing. You see, a lot of us are under the impression that STRENGTH training (you mentioned strength and eccentrics) is about movements not 'contractions'.

I'm pretty sure that on many movements I am able to exert the MOST force either at the beginning or the end.

Now, I don't know about others but I can certainly bench press more on a top only partial. A LOT more. Is that the end of the contraction?

Now when we use acommoddating resistance, such as resistance bands, the accommodating part is that the bands simply increase in tension and thus resistance the more you stretch them, thus at the END of the movement the resistance imparted by the band is 'heavier'. Now, since I am at my weakest at the 'end of the contraction' then this accomoddating resistance thing must be a figment of my imagination since it is founded on the premise that it gives me more when I am at my strongest so as to keep the tension levels more constant.

The bottom or beginning of the contraction. Well, you know I can deadlift anything I can get off the floor with a sumo deadlift. That is because with that position off the floor is the toughest part, where I am at the least mechanical advantage. So I guess it's true on that one if you call the floor the 'beginning of the contraction'.

But on conventional deads that relationship does not hold true. I can get lots of stuff off the ground but that is not a guarantee I can lock it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brut
Using eccentric contractions (going slow on the way down, or away from the middle) will help to strengthen the muscle not only at mid contraction, but at the start and finish


- tempos commenly used, especially by professional body builders
The fact that a certain group commonly uses a method or practice is by no means proof of the effectiveness of that method nor is it justification for it.

In this case however, you seem need more research. As bodybuilders are not very concerned with 'strengthening' muscles per se and most of their 'common' practices tend to limit force production during a session. And force production is job one when looking to get hella strong as opposed to just hella big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brut
1,1,3 - up on a 1 count, hold for a 1 count, go down on a 3
- 2,2,4 - up on a 2 count, hold for a 2 count, go down on a 4
That's all wrong. It's much more hardcore to go 4, 3, 5, and 5,4, 3.

Or maybe that was my high school locker combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brut
THIS BUILDS STRENGTH
Really. And the pump/burn too?

Nah, I submit, Britikus, that you don't know much about strength training.

The mid-contraction thing is simply a confusion about how the muscles work and especially when it is a simple lever system like an arm curl.

The thing is that it takes a whole lot of muscle force to rotate or even hold still a given weight (resistance). The muscles actually have to exert MORE force than the resistance they are attempting to move. For instance, take a 10lb dumbell which translates to around 44 Newtons and try to hold it mid-way in a curl so that you have elbow flexion of around 90 degrees.

It can take so much more force exerted just to hold the dumbbell at that point, up to maybe 700 Newtons or 157 lbs....amazing.

Our muscles are at a mechanical disadvantage in that way. They must exert more force than whatever resistance we give them. That is because the their lines of action runs very close to the axes of rotation. So the force arms are very small. Basically the resistances can produce more torque than they can.

For certain muscles, like the biceps/elbow system, where they can reach a 90 degree angle of pull, the force arms are maximized and thus their torque producing capability is maximized at that point...hence the myth of 'mid-contraction' which has nothing to do with contraction and everything to do with the mechanics.

That's the idea...I may have gotten some of the particulars wrong as I am not a biomechanics expert.

Last edited by EricT; 02-21-2010 at 10:51 AM.. Reason: fixed a billion typos
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:49 AM   #10
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woooooowwww...well then alright, what would you suggest a good tempo be?
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