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Training discussion on MA and wieght training, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Yes, I was kind of getting at that concept. But don't forget about transfer of function. Even with the heavy ...


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Old 05-12-2006, 09:17 AM   #11
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Yes, I was kind of getting at that concept. But don't forget about transfer of function. Even with the heavy weights you should be trying to lift them as quickly as possible. The speed doesn't matter as much as the intent. Unlike when using submaximal weights and lifting them very quickly...
Thats the direction i was leaning. going with 80-90% of max and being as explosive as possible. That should do the trick nicely.

As for the transition of static flexibility i had never heard that before. But i have always been told the best way to 'strech' for an activity is to actually do it at half speed and work your way up. And flexibility is defitaly something i need to look at exstensively. Got any good streching programs/links for me guys?

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Old 05-12-2006, 09:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
He's saying quality over quantity.
just some of the Examples where a little out there. I don't know one person that trains for 4-6 hours strait doing forms. It was just the way he opened up the article it almost seemed like a info-mershal(sp). (kinda like if you use the other product you're automatically fumbling around, but as soon as you use their product you have all your motor skill back.)

I know what point he was making it just seem a little far out and I think he might have said it's a little out there but why would you start out with a "parallels between two hypothetical training scenarios" when the first one isn't even feasible or even close to a real scenario.

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Old 05-12-2006, 09:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdgain81
Thats the direction I was leaning. going with 80-90% of max and being as explosive as possible. That should do the trick nicely.

As for the transition of static flexibility I had never heard that before. But I have always been told the best way to 'stretch' for an activity is to actually do it at half speed and work your way up. And flexibility is defitaly something I need to look at extensively. Got any good stretching programs/links for me guys?
I use to do a couple forms first at half speed and make the kicks slow. Then stretch the old fashion way by doing splits and leaning to one side and what not. But Now I feel that incorporating Yoga movements into a regular stretching routine is the best thing you can do. Even if you just read up on some books and get a video it will help with flexibility and strength 10 fold.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
just some of the Examples where a little out there. I don't know one person that trains for 4-6 hours strait doing forms. It was just the way he opened up the article it almost seemed like a info-mershal(sp). (kinda like if you use the other product you're automatically fumbling around, but as soon as you use their product you have all your motor skill back.)

I know what point he was making it just seem a little far out and I think he might have said it's a little out there but why would you start out with a "parallels between two hypothetical training scenarios" when the first one isn't even feasible or even close to a real scenario.
I see EXACTLY what you're saying. I never knew anyone to do katas for 4 hours and it's a little ridiculous to parallel this with his points about supplemental weight training. Maybe if he hadn't opened it this way it would be easier to swallow.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
I see EXACTLY what you're saying. I never knew anyone to do katas for 4 hours and it's a little ridiculous to parallel this with his points about supplemental weight training. Maybe if he hadn't opened it this way it would be easier to swallow.
exactly. But once you get past that it's got some good stuff in there.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:28 AM   #16
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What he was describing sounded more like a Ranking/Testing situation. In that case 4hrs is nothing, but i wouldnt call that training by anymeans. That would be the reason you are training for.

Same would go for a marathon runner, no one in thier right mind goes out and trains for a marathon by trying to run the full distance 3 or 4 times a week. Just doesnt happen.
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:37 AM   #17
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There are different types of flexibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Kurz
Flexibility training is speed-specific because in the muscle there are two kinds of stretch receptors, one detecting the magnitude and speed of stretching, the other detecting magnitude only. Dynamic stretches improve dynamic flexibility and static stretches improve mostly static flexibility, which is why it does not make sense to use static stretches as a warm-up for dynamic action.
You have to incoporate all types of stretching for the utmost success. Static/Passive, Dynamic, Active (and PNF is something to look at). Of couse you need some degree of passive flexibility in order to achieve initial levels of dynamic/active flexibility. But for martial artists who don't use dynamic and active stretching teqniques I believe most of their flexibility in a particular movement comes from practising that movement in real-world situations.

Keep in mind when I say "dynamic" I DON'T mean ballistic. These are two different things. Dynamic stretching can be done safely. Just as safely as doing those "real-world" movements. IMO, it's the best thing to do before training (as well as during). If you wan't to do static type stretching before as well then look into PNF type stretching. I wouldn't touch "a split" before training. Any type of training. Static/Passive type stretching is always best saved for after for a cool-down.

A lot of yoga is active strething. It develops strength in the antagonist so this makes perfect sense. Rember that with static stretching you are using some type of apparatus, whether it be a partner, the floor, bodyweight or something else. In the real world there is no apparatus, only your muscles! And you're moving fast, not slow...unless you're Steven Seagal.

Another point is that hyper-flexibility in itself is not necessarily a good thing if that extended range of motion doesn't come with strength and control. You especially wouldn't want it to result in joint laxity. I have a friend whos been doing Yoga everyday for years (there are different types and modalities). He can place his palms together behing his back, fingertips up, and then move his hands all the way up between his shoulderblades, almost touching his neck. Impressive. But the guy has almost no strength in his shoulders. No control. That kind of hyper-flexibility has no place, for instance, in a grappling situation.

I could go on and on. In addtion to the training I did when I was still active I've read 5 different books on martial arts stretching. Each one had it's own slant and taken by itself was useless. The following articles sum it all up. I would read it all if I were you.

everything you ever wanted to know about stretching

Kurz

Last edited by EricT; 05-12-2006 at 01:31 PM.. Reason: misspelling
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
There are different types of flexibility.



You have to incoporate all types of stretching for the utmost success. Static/Passive, Dynamic, Active (and PNF is something to look at). Of couse you need some degree of passive flexibility in order to achieve initial levels of dynamic/active flexibility. But for martial artists who don't use dynamic and active stretching teqniques I believe most of their flexibility in a particular movement comes from practising that movement in real-world situations.

Keep in mind when I say "dynamic" I DON'T mean ballistic. These are two different things. Dynamic stretching can be done safely. Just as safely as doing those "real-world" movements. IMO, it's the best thing to do before training (as well as during). If you wan't to do static type stretching before as well then look into PNF type stretching. I wouldn't touch "a split" before training. Any type of training. Static/Passive type stretching is always best saved for after for a cool-down.

A lot of yoga is active strething. It develops strength in the antagonist so this makes perfect sense. Rember that with static stretching you are using some type of apparatus, whether it be a partner, the floor, bodyweight or something else. In the real world there is no apparatus, only your muscles! And you're moving fast, not slow...unless you're Steven Seagal.

Another point is that hyper-flexibility in itself is not necessarily a good thing if that extended range of motion doesn't come with strength and control. You especially wouldn't want it to result in joint laxity. I have a friend whos been doing Yoga everyday for years (there are different types and modalities). He can place his palms together behing his back, fingertips up, and then move his hands all the way up between his shoulderblades, almost touching his neck. Impressive. But the guy has almost no strength in his shoulders. No control. That kind of hyper-flexibility has no place, for instance, in a grappling situation.

I could go on and on. In addtion to the training I did when I was still active I've read 5 different books on martial arts stretching. Each one had it's own slant and taken by itself was useless. The following articles sum it all up. I would read it all if I were you.

everything you ever wanted to know about stretching

Kurtz
very good find.
I glanced at the stretching section about Static/Passive, Dynamic, Active and PNF and def. gave me some idea on how I can improve on how I stretch. I'll def. read the whole thing tonight.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:01 PM   #19
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Thats long, i printed it so i can read it on the 'throne'. you know the only place any real reading gets done in a mans house.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
I glanced at the stretching section about Static/Passive, Dynamic, Active and PNF and def. gave me some idea on how I can improve on how I stretch. I'll def. read the whole thing tonight.
Cool! That guy worked hard on that info! The Kurz stuff is some good shit too. It helps with how it all comes together. He's all about the high kicks, i.e. Tae Kwon Doe, Karate, Kickboxing, but, those are the go to guys for flexibility...and that guy is flexible.

Last edited by EricT; 05-12-2006 at 01:28 PM.. Reason: misspelling
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