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Training discussion on MA and wieght training, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Ok, so here is the problem. When I lift heavey it is impossible to give martial arts the kind of ...


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Old 05-11-2006, 11:36 AM   #1
hrdgain81
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Default MA and wieght training

Ok, so here is the problem. When I lift heavey it is impossible to give martial arts the kind of attention it deserves. Especially when it comes to legs. When I lift heavey legs it takes a good 3 to 4 days to fully recover from the soreness. So in preperation for upcoming martial arts camp, here is what I was thinking.

HST style full body workouts, twice a week. Utilizing mostly compound movements at 75-85% of max's in the 8 to 10 rep range. I will also use as many bodywieght movements as I can like pull ups, dips, chins ect. I will prob go with 3 sets on compounds, and what little iso's i do would be 1 or 2 sets depending.

I was also thinking of doing two different workouts, possibly hitting things differently each workout. but thats up in the air.

Weekly break down:
Mon: morning Hiit or complexes, late afternoon 45min -75min martial arts (working my way up)
Tuesday: lift
Wed: same as mon
Thursday: lift
Friday: Same as mon
Saterday: off
Sunday: off

I'm hoping this will allow me to increase endurance/speed, keep strength, and lose fat. Without being too sore.

Diet will continue as is, carb timing and macro's will most likely be adjusted downward as my bodyfat falls.

Let me know what you guys think. I have 3 weeks left of my current program so I will need to figure this out kinda soon.

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Old 05-11-2006, 12:32 PM   #2
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I think you're good to go. this will be very similar to what I will be doing so I feel your pain when it comes to legs and then MA training. It sucks a fatty. I would run this till your camp is over then see if you can do HST 3 times a week and MA the other 3. By that time your body should be adjusted to the work load and you might be able to lift more.

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Old 05-11-2006, 12:56 PM   #3
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I think it all depends on what areas your think you are weak in. It sounds like you are satisfied with strentgh and are concerned with speed and endurance.

Keep in mind that you have to train for effect. If you want your speed to improve you have to use some type of dynamic effort protocol. And I may be way off base here since I don't know the exact type of MA training you'll be doing, but isn't it, in itself, going to increase endurance? If you're thinking about speed and endurance, and you don't think it's overkill, then that's one thing. But on the other hand, if something IS covered, then that might allow you to focus additional training on other weak areas.


An article that may help:


Charles Staley

Alwyn Cosgrove

(His site, with the Metabolic Power Training article also)

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:23 AM   #4
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good look on the staley article eric. He makes some very good points that i had not thought about before. Being that I'm already realatively strong (RELATIVELY ) i think i should be focusing on speed strength durring my training sessions. Keeping in the 3 to 6 rep range for compounds, and being as explosive as possible.

The only part I really disagree with is his vision of overtraining in the dojo. I will agree that after hours of high intensity sparring or kata it is impossible to have great form. but that is not what is being trained at that point ... its heart/drive/determination. and those are just as important in martial arts as speed/strength/form.
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrdgain
The only part I really disagree with is his vision of overtraining in the dojo. I will agree that after hours of high intensity sparring or kata it is impossible to have great form. but that is not what is being trained at that point ... its heart/drive/determination. and those are just as important in martial arts as speed/strength/form.
I had a feeling you'd mention that. I kind of glossed over it but I had the same feeling....he's kind of missing the point. It's not really relatable to weight training. He also doesn't seem to recognize that a lot of your strides in skill level comes in the off time, mostly over night....after exactly that type of training where you don't get any better and acually get worse towards the end...and then the next time you train you're suddenly doing something you couldn't do before.

But I figured the other stuff was on point.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:16 AM   #6
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oh it most definately is, thanks for posting that.

Quote:
He also doesn't seem to recognize that a lot of your strides in skill level comes in the off time, mostly over night....after exactly that type of training where you don't get any better and acually get worse towards the end...and then the next time you train you're suddenly doing something you couldn't do before.
its funny you put it that way. especially with flexibility, i remember being hardly able to move at times. then almost over night i would drop another 3 or 4" in to a split, or my legs would feel like rubber bands, and everything would improve.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdgain81
good look on the staley article eric. He makes some very good points that i had not thought about before. Being that I'm already realatively strong (RELATIVELY ) i think i should be focusing on speed strength durring my training sessions. Keeping in the 3 to 6 rep range for compounds, and being as explosive as possible.

The only part I really disagree with is his vision of overtraining in the dojo. I will agree that after hours of high intensity sparring or kata it is impossible to have great form. but that is not what is being trained at that point ... its heart/drive/determination. and those are just as important in martial arts as speed/strength/form.
Staley's article is ok. I don't agree on some points and he def. doesn't take into consideration level of skill and recovery time.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:37 AM   #8
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After reading through it again, there is one other thing he mentions that i need to take into acount. I should be getting speed from ma training, and endurance ... so those things dont need to be worked in the gym. The gym should suppliment the things i'm not getting anywere else.

So I will have to balance strength training in which i need heavey ass wieghts, and wieght ranges that wont have me sore for days on end. This is gonna be fun.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Staley's article is ok. I don't agree on some points and he def. doesn't take into consideration level of skill and recovery time.
I'm not sure exatly which parts you're talking about. He's saying quality over quantity. The bottom line is that supplemental training for a martial artist is all about functionality. But the article is basic and I don't think he's trying to address every point. As far as the stuff in the dojo goes though, I'm with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardgain
its funny you put it that way. especially with flexibility, i remember being hardly able to move at times. then almost over night i would drop another 3 or 4" in to a split, or my legs would feel like rubber bands, and everything would improve.
BTW, don't forget that there is only about a 20 percent transfer of static flexibility to dynamic or active flexibility.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hargdain
I should be getting speed from ma training, and endurance ... so those things dont need to be worked in the gym. The gym should suppliment the things i'm not getting anywere else.
Yes, I was kind of getting at that concept. But don't forget about transfer of function. Even with the heavy weights you should be trying to lift them as quickly as possible. The speed doesn't matter as much as the intent. Unlike when using submaximal weights and lifting them very quickly...

Excerpt from Secrets of Martial Arts Conditioning

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