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My Plan: Your Ideas and Input

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Old 03-18-2006, 07:39 PM   #1
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Default My Plan: Your Ideas and Input

i'm currently doing Mark Rippetoe's 3x5 Beginner Program...

i think most of u know that i unfortunately lacked a true goal... yes, "lacked"... i have one now... Strength... i'm gonna take an intelligent man's advice (0311 ;)) and focus on strength as a beginner...

but, from what i've read and heard, no one can focus only on strength.. what i've seen people do is switch between strenght and hypertrophy rouitnes... sometimes, these routines go along on a parallel basis...

its probably because of that that this was made in the DFT 5x5 (post be 0311):

Quote:
Mesocycle 1:........................5x5 Loading
Mesocycle 2: Microcycle 1:.....5x5 Deload Week
Mesocycle 2: Microcycles 2-5:.5x5 Intensity Weeks
Microcycle 1 (separate):.........Deloading - 1 week
Mesocycle 3: Microcycles 1-3:.DFHT Loading
Mesocycle 3: Micocycle 4:.......DFHT Deloading
Microcycle 2 (separate):..........Specialty work - 2 weeks
Repeat
in that case, would it be ok if i do this:

Weeks 1-3:.......Mark Rippetoe's Program
Weeks 4-5:.......DFHT / DFST
Weeks 5-7:.......Mark Rippetoe's Program
Weeks 8-9:.......DFHT / DFST

how does this sound...? that way i get hypertrophy + strength in one cycle... and i dont get bored.... and i can do plyometrics with DFHT or DFST....

please give your ideas and input..

thanks

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Old 03-18-2006, 08:00 PM   #2
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I think you're looking for a way out of the Rippetoe workout. You just said you're interested in strength. Therefore, you need to continue doing the same program you're doing now for as long as the strength increases keep happening. You cannot keep jumping from one program to another and expect any kind of benefit whatsoever.

The DFT 5x5 layout you have posted is dual factor, not single factor like you're doing. Dual factor 5x5 has you reaching your [predetermined] rep maxes in each exercise within 3-4 weeks. You're doing a single factor type of training, which is basically a program that allows you to continue increasing the weights indefinately before stepping back and re-evaluating. You need to focus on doing the program in your journal for more than 2-3 weeks. DFHT isn't focused on strength anyways. As a matter of fact, DFHT/DFST is dual factor, which IMO you aren't anywhere near ready for. Just keep your program and focus more on eating and strength increases instead of what happens to catch your eye in the stickies....

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Old 03-18-2006, 08:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
I think you're looking for a way out of the Rippetoe workout.
nope... didnt u read my last entry..? : http://www.bodybuilding.net/showthre...15159#poststop

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
Just keep your program and focus more on eating and strength increases instead of what happens to catch your eye in the stickies....
will do...
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:14 PM   #4
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Just read it...Good job with your success. However, don't try what you outlined in this thread..
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
However, don't try what you outlined in this thread..
yeah ok....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
I think you're looking for a way out of the Rippetoe workout.
no.. not really... i'm only trying to look for a way to incorporate Plyometrics into my program without ruining my progress....
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj247
yeah ok....



no.. not really...
You sound like you think what you put is a good idea...By all means then, do it.

You know your reputation for leap frogging every other week from one program to another. You pm'ed me just the other day saying that you wanted to do another program with more volume...It just seems like you lack the capacity to do an actual program as prescribed for more than a few weeks...Everyone here can attest to that. If you get irritated by everyone telling you you're wrong with something, then don't post asking for comments. Just do whatever you want, and when it doesn't work out, so be it....
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:31 PM   #7
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i wrote that pm coz i was down in the dumps (mentally)... my arms had shrunk (refer to my last post in my journal)..... i was feeling like i was deteriorating... now i'm not...

and i dont plan on changing from Mark's routine for a long long time... seriosuly... like i mentioned in my post... i have understood what u and eric meant when u said "consistency"... well, i'm gonna be "consistent" with this program...

the only reason why i thought of modifying it is so that i can do polymetrics... thats all..

see, i have this theory (well, its not mine, but it was told to me by someone) that cardio (or plyometrics) are ESSENTIAL because u need to make ur heart to be able to support this added mass on ur body... the only way to make ur heart support ur frame (in my case: one whcih is DRASTICALLY inreaseing - i'm referring to my weight jump from 78 kgs to 79 kgs to 80 kgs right now) is to do plyometrics or cardio..

now, if i do cardio on the off days, i'm delaying my lower body recovery which will delay my progress on the squat - not something which i want...

because of this, i thought of changing it a little bit so i can do cardio every 3 weeks....

now, i hope i dont piss u off with this... i'm being truthful... the reason above is why i thought of modifying the routine..and i'm NOT irritated sir... ur 1 of the people who i listen to 100%.... hell, i even ask u before quitting a program.. and its not like i havent done any program well...

i've done:

1.) Quattro Dynamo

2.) TBT

3.) OVT

with consistency...!

i've only beeen screwing around (like an idiot) for 1 month... but i'm back with a good routine which i'm giving my 100% to....
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Old 03-19-2006, 07:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj247
see, i have this theory (well, its not mine, but it was told to me by someone) that cardio (or plyometrics) are ESSENTIAL because u need to make ur heart to be able to support this added mass on ur body... the only way to make ur heart support ur frame (in my case: one whcih is DRASTICALLY inreaseing - i'm referring to my weight jump from 78 kgs to 79 kgs to 80 kgs right now) is to do plyometrics or cardio..
First of all, BB'ing is anerobic meaning you deplete your oxygen stores faster than you can refresh them...and I've never had a workout where I wasn't breathing heavily with my heart racing. So doing absolutely no cardio doesn't mean you don't exercise your heart. Secondly, you're not going to have a heartattack because you gained an extra 5kg. I haven't done cardio in years and I've put on over 40lbs (about 20kgs) and I haven't seen any impact on my heart.



Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj247
3.) OVT

with consistency...!
Refer to your journal again....I agree with 1 and 2...but not 3.

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Old 03-19-2006, 01:58 PM   #9
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What I don't understand, Anuj, is that you continually talk about becoming bored but you've mentioned on more than one occasion that you want or like more volume. What can be more boring than doing endless sets on one muscle group? It may not be more boring, but it certainly isn't less.

It's all about results, whether short term or long term. Now, since you spoke of whether people focus only on strength as opposed to switching between hypertrophy and strength, I'm gonna post an article. Not to confuse the issue, but to make it clear that the hypertrophy is NOT ALL CREATED EQUAL. Once you know that, and your know that the WAY YOU TRAIN, impacts the type of hypertrophic gains you get, it may impact the decisions you make in choosing training methods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Siff
Fallacy: All muscle hypertrophy is essentially the same

The impressively large and muscular physiques of bodybuilders, weightlifters, powerlifters and gymnasts may tend to create the impression that their shape is due to the same sort of muscle hypertrophy. Research by Russian scientists (Nikituk & Samoilov), however, has shown that there are at least two different types of muscle hypertrophy: sarcomere hypertrophy and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the first one associated with growth of the contractile components of the muscle fibers (the actin and myosin complex) and the latter with growth of the structures supporting and surrounding the contractile elements (the sarcoplasmic reticulum and sarcoplasm).

Sarcomere hypertrophy, maximally stimulated by Olympic weightlifting style training, results in significant increases in strength, unlike the sarcoplasmic variety, which is markedly increased by bodybuilding style training. The former, therefore, is of greater relevance to the weightlifter or any other athlete who needs functional hypertrophy for improving sporting performance, with the latter form offering minimal sporting benefits, unless sheer bulk is needed for superiority, as is often the case in bodybuilding posing and sumo wrestling. Obviously, then, one would be wary of relying largely on bodybuilding methods as a form of supplementary training for other sports.

Fallacy: Muscle hyperplasia does not occur
Muscle growth may occur as the result of two possible processes: hypertrophy (increase in size of fibers) or hyperplasia (increase in number of fibers). In the case of muscle fibers, the occurrence of hypertrophy in response to strength training is a well-established fact, but there is a considerable debate concerning muscle hyperplasia.

Gonyea has presented evidence of hyperplasia in cats subjected to heavy resistance training, but other researchers have criticised this work, pointing out there may be fiber splitting, but not proliferation of new fibers. Certain Russian research also suggests that increase in muscle mass occurs not only through hypertrophy of muscle fibers, but as a result of an increase in fiber number by means of the splitting of hypertrophied muscle fibers and the development of muscle fibers from muscle “buds” and satellite cells. In addition, it has been suggested that muscle hyperplasia may occur with extremely intense resistance training, but current evidence from human subjects is inconclusive.

According to Antonio, two basic mechanisms may contribute to new muscle fiber formation, namely muscle fiber splitting (minor component) and satellite cell proliferation (major component).

He points out that there is plenty of direct evidence in animal models (rats lifting weights, cats lifting weights, birds wings being stretched by hanging weights) for muscle hyperplasia and indirect evidence (in bodybuilders and other strength athletes) based upon observations that these athletes have much larger overall muscle mass but little or no difference in muscle fiber size. Antonio suspects that muscle fiber hyperplasia might play a major role in humans only in the most muscular athletes (elite bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc.). For the average fitness type, he considers that it probably is not a significant factor in overall skeletal muscle enlargement.

Although the existence of hyperplasia of muscle fiber is uncertain, hyperplasia of structures within the muscle fiber and cell does occur. Nikituk and Samoilov identify two types of subfibral hyperplasia:

- Sarcoplasmic hyperplasia, which involves an increase in the number of sarcoplasmic organelles

- Myofibrillar-mitochondrial hyperplasia, which involves increase in the number of myofibrils and mitochondria.

Increase in muscle diameter is due to enlargement of individual muscle fibers by an increase in the number and size of individual myofibrils (Goldspink), accompanied by an increase in the amount of connective tissue (McDonagh & Davies). Moreover, sarcomere hypertrophy is associated with an increase in the size and number of the sarcomeres which comprise the myofibrils. These are added either in parallel or in series with the existing myofibrils, although only parallel growth contributes significantly to an increased ability to increase muscle tension. Dr. Mel C. Siff, Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, Denver, CO, 2000, pg. 25-26.
For a simple definition, hypertrophy means that things are growing larger, and hyperplasia means that the number of things are increasing. However, the word hypertrophy is generally used for processes that involve both at once.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj
see, i have this theory (well, its not mine, but it was told to me by someone) that cardio (or plyometrics) are ESSENTIAL because u need to make ur heart to be able to support this added mass on ur body... the only way to make ur heart support ur frame (in my case: one whcih is DRASTICALLY inreaseing - i'm referring to my weight jump from 78 kgs to 79 kgs to 80 kgs right now) is to do plyometrics or cardio..
I think what you are talking about is something like this, also by Siff:

Quote:
Other research has found that hypertrophied muscle fibres need a
significantly larger tissue volume to perform a given amount of work. With
the development of non-functional muscle bulk (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy),
the increase in muscle mass outsrtips the development of the circulatory
system, resulting in decreased nutrition and oxygenation of the muscle,
slowing down the metabolic processes in the muscle and less efficient
disposal of metabolic waste products from the musculoskeletal system
(Zalessky & Burkhanov Legkaya Atletika 1981: 1-7).
Which is further explained here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siff
THE ENERGY COSTS OF TOO MUCH HYPERTROPHY

This might suggest that all muscle fibre hypertrophy lowers work capacity.
Hypertrophy is an adaptive response to physical stress and does offer the
benefit of increased mitochondrial surface area, which provides for more
efficient energy processes than would an increased number of mitochondria.
With a rapid increase in loading, the size of the mitochondria continues to
increase markedly, but their number decreases and the concentration of ATP
drops, thereby diminishing the partial volume of the contractile myofibrils.

The resulting energy deficit soon inhibits the formation of new structures
and the decreased amount of ATP stimulates various destructive processes
associated with decrease in the number of myofibrils. This process is
referred to as irrational adaptation.

Growth of any living structure is related to the balance between its volume
and its surface area. When muscle hypertrophy occurs, the surface of the
fibres grows more slowly than their volume and, this imbalance causes the
fibres to disintegrate and restructure in a way which preserves their
original metabolic state (Nikituk & Samoilov, 1990).

It would appear that light and medium increases in loading require less
energy, facilitate cell repair, minimise the occurrence of destructive
processes and stimulate the synthesis of new, non-hypertrophied cellular
structures. Medium loads applied with a medium rate of increase in loading
produce intense muscular development, the process in this case being
referred to as rational adaptation..

The fact that conventional isometric training improves performance in
static, rather than dynamic, exercise may be due to the different
structural effects of isometric training on the muscle fibres, muscle
cells, connective tissues and blood capillaries.

MORE ON OPTIMAL HYPERTROPHY

This work seems to corroborate the hypothesis referred to earlier that
there may be an optimum size for muscle fibres undergoing hypertrophy
(MacDougall et al, 1982; Tesch & Larsson, 1982). The importance of
prescribing resistance training regimes which produce the optimal balance
between hypertrophy and specific strength then becomes obvious. Thus, it
is not only prolonged cardiovascular training which can be detrimental to
the acquisition of strength, but multiple fairly high repetition sets of
heavy bodybuilding or circuit training routines to the point of failure may
also inhibit the formation of contractile muscle fibres.

Therefore, it is vital to monitor regularly changes in muscular structure
and function alongside changes in size and mass. In most cases the taking
of biopsies is not possible or financially practical, so that indirect
assessment of the adaptive processes is necessary. Increase in hypertrophy
of a given muscle zone may be assessed from muscle girth and skinfold
thicknesses at that site, while factors such as relative strength, maximal
strength and the strength deficit (see Ch 1) serve as useful indicators of
functional efficiency.

INDISCRIMINATE WEIGHT TRAINING

Bosco (1982a) cautions against the indiscriminate use of resistance
training that typifies much of the 'cross training' prescribed with weights
and circuits by Western personal trainers and coaches. He emphasizes that,
although heavy resistance training serves as a powerful stimulus for the
development and hypertrophy of both ST and FT fibres, the invaluable role
played by FT development can be impaired by the accompanying growth of ST
fibres, because the latter appear to provoke a damping effect on FT
contraction during fast movement.

This is due to the fact that, during high speed shortening of muscle, the
sliding velocity of ST fibres can be too slow and therefore, may exert a
significant damping effect on the overall muscle contraction. He concludes
that the central role played by the storage and release of elastic energy
by the connective tissues of the muscle complex should never be ignored in
sport specific training programmes.
Now I know you're not going to read all that, and it is pretty complicated. Also like many other things, it is theory. But the bottom line is, cardio is not going to do what you think.

Last edited by EricT; 03-19-2006 at 09:14 PM.. Reason: fixed quote
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