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need workout routine - age 17 - 120 lbs

Training discussion on need workout routine - age 17 - 120 lbs, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Originally Posted by hrdgain81 this last part is the only part i dont really agree with. a 5lb tub of ...


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Old 07-01-2008, 08:26 AM   #41
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this last part is the only part i dont really agree with. a 5lb tub of whey is what $25 bucks or so, plus maybe 10 bucks for dextrose/malto isnt expensive at all. Plus if your lifting 2-3 times a week, that 5lb tub will last you a few months.

for me personally, using whey is a must, I get serious stomach cramping after working out, I cant eat solid food for atleast an hour or more after a hard workout, be it cardio or resistance training.
I agree. Whey is too cheap for me to not supplement with. I'm going to buy a 4lb container of whey isolate for $13 tomorrow. And everyone else can buy whey for very cheap also.

I just use it PWO and sometimes pre workout. I like the digestion rate and the amino acid profile. I get 95% of the rest of my protein from whole foods. But my diet is pretty good. Of course we would like to see the newbs get their diets right first. That's almost enough reason for me to tell them not to bother with whey...but not quite. When all of the little things start to add up, then you start to have something significant.

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by hrdgain81 View Post
this last part is the only part i dont really agree with. a 5lb tub of whey is what $25 bucks or so, plus maybe 10 bucks for dextrose/malto isnt expensive at all. Plus if your lifting 2-3 times a week, that 5lb tub will last you a few months.

for me personally, using whey is a must, I get serious stomach cramping after working out, I cant eat solid food for atleast an hour or more after a hard workout, be it cardio or resistance training.
Well, I would never argue that my own diet approaches optimum nutrition My point was only that in dropping any semblance of powdered or pill form goodies has not been the downfall of my training. In fact, I have made significant improvements since I gave it all up. I will also say that I gave up alcohol and carbonated beverages of any type... truthfully I rarely drink black coffee or unsweetened tea. Otherwise I'm straight milk or water for beverages.

I can tell you that when I was taking supplements I would EASILY drop $100 a month. Without batting an eyelash. Sadly this went on for many years. At this point I would rather buy a nice powerlifting bar, or a couple kettlebells than drop dime one on anything that comes in a jug.

I'm not sure what to say about your innability to eat. I typically drink milk post workout, and try to eat some fruit. Is milk the "like poop through a goose" quick protein source that whey is? No... but it sticks around much longer, so that milk I drank this AM after my workout (aside from being great to help rehydrate) was probably still with me at 10-11am when I started eating again.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:35 AM   #43
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I know I'll get flamed for this, but I don't drink milk very often any more. I am not a fan of casein. It's difficult to raise blood amino acid levels very high with casein. It slows the digestion of whey when they're mixed together in a shake. It's good for night time. That's the only time I drink it other than when I don't feel like having water. Will you please convince me that I should be drinking it, because I'm actually kind of missing my milk.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:54 AM   #44
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I know why you say "milk at night." but why wouldn't that slow digestion and extended release be worth having all day long? I mean, assuming you are like me and work out in the AM. I wouldn't dare drink milk pre-work out for anything more difficult than some light sled dragging. It would be a total puke fest!

I have read all of the material I could on protein digestion and timing and all of that. I'm not saying you can't get it to work in a lab, but my own personal experience kinda leads me towards the "lots of work for not much gain" side of things. Just like supplementation.

I really truly think that we get so focused on the little tricks that we forget that building strength and muscle has existed for a LONG time before any of this earth shattering research was done and yet we are still not making the old time strongmen look like pansies.

To me this is like a sprinter worrying about shaving body hair and wearing the world's greatest aerodynamic suit and blah blah blah... oh yeah, but he only goes out and jogs a bit now and again, eats like crap, stays up all night playing video games... and then wonders why he never makes it to the olympics. I mean... he paid attention to EVERY LAST DETAIL! ;)
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:07 AM   #45
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why wouldn't that slow digestion and extended release be worth having all day long?
That's why I eat 8 meals a day...to keep my blood amino acid levels very high. I think you're right though. The difference that it would make is not significant...if I'm eating that frequently, it's not going to lower blood amino acid levels. And it's not going to keep anything from being digested. It's just something that I've gotten away from lately. It's definitely an easy way to get in some extra protein. I need to start taking my dairy digestant pills again so I stop feeling like crap all day after drinking a lot of milk.

Thanks for helping me re-think that through. It's easy for dumb ideas to manifest.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:15 AM   #46
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Lactose intolerant? I am... still manage to plow through close to 8 gallons of milk a week. Some of it CHOCOLATE milk ... shhhh, don't tell

The problem with the whole "digestion time" thing is that once again, it is great in a lab, but it doesn't really work in real life. No food is JUST this or JUST that. Even things like ramping up the nervous system will shut down digestion rates. If you are training like hell, your body goes into fight or flight mode. In this state your blood and all of the body functions are turned towards your muscles. But eating and sleeping is a totally different thing. Parasympathetic vs sympathetic nervous system. Anyway, it doesn't flip back and forth like a light switch. It takes time for your body to decide the "fight" is over and that it is safe to think about fun... like sex or food or sleep. So that will goof up digestion too. All these food studies look mighty fine on paper, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it is VERY hard to replicate the results in a normal day.

Anywho, milk is good stuff. Should be easier to get down than a hunk of beef jerky or a burger right after a workout. I'm also a big fan of peanutbutter. I rarely do the jelly thing, but honey on occasion. Good old fashioned nutrient dense foods!
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:48 AM   #47
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I'll let you guys debate milk, I am also lactose intolerant, to the point that I get very bad gas and cramps from drinking any more then a half a cup of milk. So for my comfort, and the comfort of those around me I dont mess with it.

Quote:
I can tell you that when I was taking supplements I would EASILY drop $100 a month. Without batting an eyelash. Sadly this went on for many years. At this point I would rather buy a nice powerlifting bar, or a couple kettlebells than drop dime one on anything that comes in a jug.
KB's FTW ... now your speaking my language andrew!

Quote:
I'm not sure what to say about your innability to eat. I typically drink milk post workout, and try to eat some fruit. Is milk the "like poop through a goose" quick protein source that whey is? No... but it sticks around much longer, so that milk I drank this AM after my workout (aside from being great to help rehydrate) was probably still with me at 10-11am when I started eating again.
eh, nothing to say really, it sucks, but it happens to me all the time. so you can see why whey is a life saver for me. I lose all urge to eat after training, to the point where solid food makes me want to puke.

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Old 07-01-2008, 10:59 AM   #48
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If KB's are your language, then you will be happy to know that I scored a 70lb KB from the AKC booth at the Arnold fitness expo for only $75 I defy anyone to beat that! No shipping and a heavy muther f-er of a KB for almost $1/lb! Yipee! lol. And seriously, I would bet money that the purchase of such an item might actually be more beneficial for strength/endurance and musclular gains than $70 worth of whey... but I get why people like it.

At face value, and to the normal shmo, protein is protein, right? So steak and whey are the same crap. Bodybuilder bob says I need 2grams of the stuff per lb of body weight (nevermind that the equation should probably be more like 1g/lb of lean mass) and all of a sudden you have an industry!

sadly, I actually like the taste of whey shakes. But I just can't rationalize the price, even if is it "cheap." Real food is cheap enough too, fills me up and since I work out at home, is readily available within seconds of completing my workouts.

When I run I have a hard time eating post workout. But otherwise... I'm pretty much fine. So fine in fact that our strongman training group has taken up hitting the local chinese buffet post workouts! Yeah, big smelly and hungry men. That will cut into your profit margin pretty quick
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:13 AM   #49
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^^ I like your style Andrew. gotta love the all you can eat chinese buffet ... they probrably freak out when they see you guys coming hahaha.

I'm a big KB fan, I just got started with them about a month and a half ago, but they constitute all of my strenght training right now.

And your right, they are freakin expensive if you need to get them shipped ... right around 2 bucks a lb.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:35 AM   #50
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Honestly, I've seen Valery Fedorenko do some pretty amazing things strength wise, though he never trains with anything but KBs. When I talked the AKC out of their KB, Valery worked with me on some form issues. I was strong enough to manhandle the 70lb kb, but after he corrected my form on cleans and pressing I could do a pretty good number without getting too worn out. Wish I had two of them. In fact, I wish I had two of any KB other than my wife's 15lb-ers. I have a 25, a 45 and my 70, but all are singles so I get stuck doing unilateral movements because I don't have pairs.

I'm the only lightweight in my training group. The rest are middle up to heavy (one is a 400lb semi-pro football lineman). So it isn't me the buffet should fear! Honestly, it is the teens. The couple teenagers that work with us pack away some serious food. I can remember eating that way, but I pay for it now if I try to keep up
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