New Workout
 

Well boys and girl(s), I'm in the market for a new program and I'm looking for ideas anyone might have. I've been doing 'strength' based routines for a bit now and I'd like to focus more on mass.

Just to recap my experience:
-Lifting about 4yrs
-Done OVT, Needsize's 5x5, HST, DF 5x5, DFHT 5x5, Beginner's Westside

(Bolded ones have pretty much been my bread and butter for the past 2 years)

I've been looking at the ultimate workout guide a bit but I haven't quite narrowed in on anything really. I was gonna post some of my ideas but I don't really want to bias anyone's opinion.

As always I appreciate your input guys (and gal if IK happens to drop by lol)

I'm really, really curious to hear some of the responses. I've been thinking about moving to a mass routine in about 6 or 8 months. I've been researching a lot and haven't really gotten anywhere. It's something that hasn't specifically been discussed a LOT on this site.

There are some good mass routines floating around. OVT, HST, DFHT and a few others (just listed ones I know for sure) but they have kind of faded into the sunset. I've got journals for almost every program I've done on here if you're interested. I guess I'm more interested in who thinks what will work for me at this stage.

I like using descending sets.

Kane, wassup? :)

have you tried looking into an upper-lower???

or, another program which comes to mind is: http://www.bodybuilding.net/powerlif...naab-2318.html

great
 

these sets i see above are really good work out sets, hopefully some day i would be able to life these kids of weights too...still starting off though, hopefully i could get there in no time...:weights:

Thanks for posting Anuj. An upper/lower style has crossed my mind but I haven't come up with any sort of template for one yet. The Keethnab Hybrid you posted looks really good. I'm going to read it over a few times and see what I come up with. As of right now its the most appealing routine.

ever think about DFST?

I looked over the article 0311 posted as well as RobS's journal. I think its too much strength for what I want right now. I'd like to primarily focus on mass and have strength secondary.

hey there, kane :)

here's something i came off the top of my head..

so, lets say i have to choose primary exercises, since i am training more strongman style, here's what i would do:

ME Press Variant: Standing Military Press
SQ/DL Variant (a): Power Cleans
RE Press Variant (a): Close Grip Bench Press
SQ/DL Variant (b): Olympic Squats
RE Press Variant (b): Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Unilateral Press
ME DL Variant: Deadlifts

so, here is how my program would look:

Monday - ME upper body/press
Standing Military Press-------3 x 1 – 3, 1 set each @ 90% / 100% / 95% of 3, 2, or 1 RM
Power Cleans-- 5x5 (ramped)
Close Grip Bench Press--- 5x5 (sets across, adjust weights down 5-10% from template)
Pendlay rows----------5x5 (ramped)

Wednesday - RE day
Olympic Squats----- 4x10
Seated Dumbbell Unilateral Shoulder Press -- 4x10
Chinups----------------- 4x10
Yates rows------------- 4x10

Friday - ME lower body
Deadlifts----------3 x 1 - 3 > @ 90% / 100% / 95% of 1, 2, or 3 RM
Power Cleans---5x5 (sets across, adjust weights downward 5-10%)
Close Grip Bench Press--- -5x5 (ramped)
Pendlay rows------------5x5 (sets across)

----x----

just some random ideas :)

I would be more tempted to do this:

ME Press Variant: Standing Military Press
SQ/DL Variant (a): Power Cleans
RE Press Variant (a): Incline Bench Press
SQ/DL Variant (b): Olympic Squats
RE Press Variant (b): Arnold Press
ME DL Variant: Deadlifts

Not a big change from what you had, only a lilttle one. Thanks Anuj.

nice :)

its all about customization, kane. im glad you know your body so well to know what you need.

^^That's the thing I like about this, the customization.

But it also begs the question (after reading Eric's post regarding this program it really hit home):

Why am I fucking around with these cookie cutters and templates? Afterall I've got a solid experience base IMHO. :wtf:

Kane, sorry it took me this long to chime in here. I have used HST in the past for mass and I grew decently, although if I ever do it again i will cut back on bi/tri work. My legs/chest/back seemed to grow but my arms just didnt. Ever since I hit 17" it seems like they just stopped growing. I will admit I started really focusing on strength and not mass at that point, but they should have gained something ... overtraining is a bitch hahaha.

If you have a look at my journal, I have been using a custom routine for strength in certain areas, and a hypertrophy in others. Just cold measured my arms and they are 18.5" (although thats not all that acurate, I did it myself). I have very little volume in my routine, mostly because of my injury, but it could be adapted for anything really.

FEAR. That's the biggest reason people don't like to experiment, think on their feet, trust their knowledge of their own body, take reasearch from different places and figure out, slowly but surely, how it fits into their long term taining philosophy...people's failure to do this is driven by fear. Fear that they will lose a bunch of strength overnight if something doesn't "work" or they simply try things that are completely new to them. Won't happen. Let the fear go.

^^Figured that was going to come up. I think that is a major component of it. Especially since when I joined this site I had been making my own routines and found out they were total shit.

At this point I know which exercises make me grow, I have the rep ranges in mind and all that. I think I might end up assemblying all of that together (within reason) and make a program. The thing is, I've been doing these 'programs' for years now and I'm going to have to break that habit and start exploring new shit. I may fail a few times but I think at this point the newbie gains are gone so I should be able to accurately evaluate their effectiveness.

I will have a look at your routine hrdgain.

My routines were shit to :). That's the past. But I'm not suggesting you should just go off on your own completely breaking all new ground. You can kind of stick with the tried and true and try putting in your ideas, new things you pick up, figuing out how it fits in, etc...it's going to be trial and error and there is bound to be dissapointment. But the best routine in the end is going to be the one that is for you alone from the ground up.

Of course if you post your ideas and someone thinks it is a bad idea, or dangerous or what have you that is pertinent and you shouldn't be expected to just wing it all. But I would expect people to be albe to tell you WHY and not just tell you what has worked for them in the past and what has not. Because that is ultimately only relavant to them until they collect a whole lot more data.

How many times do people embark on these routines and have to ask hundreds of questions about whether this or that will work or how they can customize it?

One big problem I see is we have all these internet things going from "intermediate" to "advanced". The intermediate one tells you do not screw with it, etc. you don't know what you are doing. Then the advanced one either continues this trend of making it one size fits all...which not only goes against the idea of advanced it is really contrary to effectvie programming of any kind. OR, you go right from "not screwing with it" to being given a hundred choices becasue now you are strong enough to be 'advanced'. But when did you learn how to choose amongst all those options?

Just a few of the many problems out there.

Thanks for the response Eric. Definitely some solid points in there, especially the one about learning how to choose from all these options that are seemingly just thrown at you. You never do learn.

I'm kind of come up with a crude workout plan. I've tried to implement many of the things that I know work for me.

Day 1
Standing Military Press 5x3
Bench 5x5
DB Flyes (TUT)
Seated Cable Rows 1x5
Reverse Hypers 3x10
Tricep Pulldown 2x10


Day 2
Olympic Squats 5x5
Upright Rows 2x10
Reverse Grip Pulldowns 2x10
Lat Pulldown 2x10
Yates Row 4x8
Hammercurls 1x20-25

Day 3
Deadlift 3x1-3
Powerclean 5x5
Incline Bench 3x8
Seated Cable Rows 5x5
Dumbbell Curls 2x10

Logic:
-3 day routine, similar to DF 5x5 or ripps, etc. (Mon, Wed, Fri)
-Day 1 is hitting my pressing (ie. Triceps and shoulders) as well as working out my lower and upper back. By day 3 I should be recovered and at 100% for deads. MP is first because I want my shoulders to be fresh and sicne I'm soing Bench and flyes as a ss my bench won't be huge either.
-Day 2 is a higher volume upper day with heavy lower (5x5 squats)
-Day 3 is a must, I absolutely need those low rep high weight deads. Powercleans will follow and act as a sort of 'light squat' as well as shoulder development. Again Seated rows because those are very good for my back development. I'll have to watch my deads because that 3x1-3 is a deadly range as far as burning out is concerned so I'll manage that with small increments of loading (+5-10lbs per week). Usually heavy squatting is involved on my deadlift days but those squats are starting to impact my deadlifting, so I've axed them in favor of a heavier deadlift.

The plan as far as progression goes is to keep adding weight as per usual. As I progress I may need to make changes or substitutions. If I'm staring to feel burnt out or overtrained, then I'll deload and maybe switch to some new exercises. Most likely my decisions will be based on whats happening at that time and not what I have written down on paper.

OK, so this is what I've come up with and sort of why I've done what I've done. Again feedback is appreciated, I'd like to know if you think this will work and why/why not :D

Nice mix of sets and reps in there.

Have you taken your recent maxes ? ( either 5,3 or 1)

I've got some of them, and I can guesstimate (fairly accurately IMHO) what the ones I don't have will be. For the most part they're around where I left off before things went to shit for a while.

A2G Squat is mid 200s (5 RM)
Bench is around 200s (5 RM)
Deads are low to mid 300s (315ish) (5 RM) and mid (365ish) (3RM)

Granted I don't lift a whole ton, but I'm still lifting quite a bit.

Looks good. Have you not been working out at all ? or just doing whatever / whenever ?

A bit of both. For like 4 months I wasnt hitting the gym at all and then for the next 3 I was trying to generate some momentum but I could never stay consistent, something would always come up and screw up my momentum. My numbers went really low and I've only recently been able to bring them back up.