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Old 09-22-2008, 08:45 PM
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Default Program critique, if you don't mind

Hey guys, I've been devoting the past few weeks, unfortunately, to rehab-type lifting to heal up a strained lumbar due to some ugly squat form. I'm looking to jump right into it again, though, and make up for lost time.

I'm not sure my wrestling schedule (Oct - Mar, in college) allows for too much complexity in my programming - I'm not cutting any weight this year and I fully intend to bankrupt the cafeteria, but I'm not sure I can do too much in terms of progression schemes or even really long mesocycles because I can never tell when I'll be too busy competing to put in a lift, or whatever the case may be. I'm still at a fairly novice stage so I don't think it'll be much of a problem anyway.

So, what do you guys think - the goal here is a combination of strength and power, since I'll need both to wrestle, although I'm hoping the gains from this extend beyond just wrestling. I know some of the numbers are a little strange but I wasn't sure a straightforward high-intensity program would be best in the middle of the season.

I'm sure I've made some fairly egregious errors here so please pick it apart - if I should just use a more common template then that works too. Either way I figure the best way to learn this stuff is to dive in headfirst so here goes:



Mon:
Squat 3x5
Seated Shoulder Press 3x8
Straight Leg DL 1x8, 2x6
Weighted Situps 3x8

Wed:
Flat Bench 3x5
Front Lunges 2x8
Speed Deadlifts 3x10
Speed Bench 2x12

Fri:
Front Squat 2x6
Floor Press 3x8
Clean and Jerk 3x8
Weighted Situps 3x8




Thanks guys.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:59 PM
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I have heard that for people wanting strength and power you need to have a lot of unilateral work in there too.

If what I have read is true, then this is how I would change things up:

oh...and its all sets x reps

MONDAY
1.) Squats 5x3
2.) Clean and Jerk 5x3
3.) Pull-ups 4x failure
4.) Unilateral RDLs 3x6-8
5.) Cable Wood Chops

WEDNESDAY
1.) Front Squats 5x3
2.) Standing Military Press 5x3
3.) Unilateral Box Squats 3x10
4.) Rows 3x10
5.) Dragon Flies

FRIDAY
1.) Deadlifts 3x3
2.) Bulgarian Squats 3x7-8
3.) Standing Dumbbell Unilateral Military Press 3x7-8
4.) Chin-ups 3x5
5.) Dumbbell Suitcase Deadlifts (only one dumbbell at a time) 3x12 per side

It may be a bit too taxing on your system but you can do a lot of things to change it up:
1.) Reduce the volume on Wednesdays.
2.) Cycle the volume. Week 1 = High, Week 2 = Medium, Week 3 = Very High and Week 4 = Low
3.) Add in speed work as and when required but with the clean and jerk being there I don't think you need it. But you know better.

There are lots of things you can do with it

Good luck, dude.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:27 PM
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I don't know much about this , but seems like a lot of squats to me.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:38 PM
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You've got a jumble of lower/upper in each workout. What I would suggest is to pick a big compound that you're going to lift heavy with (for a 3x5 let's say), then pick a few exercises that support that lift. I would keep presses together, squats together (and variations), and deads (and variations) with some hip dominant exercise.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:18 AM
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Anuj - I like that program a lot, actually, although I'd be interested in seeing more info on why unilateral work is so valuable... not that I doubt it, but I'm not sure I fully get the reasoning. It definitely looks taxing, though - heavy triples on DL, then Bulgarian Squats, then suitcase deads all on one day? I think I'll have to look into what you said about cycling volume just to make sure that all the heavy work doesn't mess with my performance in practice/ in matches.

Kane - aren't a lot of programs like that? It seems like SS (Sq., BP., DL / Sq., MP., PC) is a fair mix of upper and lower, and a lot of programs I see guys trying on here have some full-body component to them. When is it a good idea to mix upper/lower on the same day and when is it inadvisable?

Thanks a lot to all three - I really appreciate the help.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:33 PM
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unilateral stuff is more gooder for the hips. and you'll need hips
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradler View Post
Anuj - I like that program a lot, actually, although I'd be interested in seeing more info on why unilateral work is so valuable... not that I doubt it, but I'm not sure I fully get the reasoning. It definitely looks taxing, though - heavy triples on DL, then Bulgarian Squats, then suitcase deads all on one day? I think I'll have to look into what you said about cycling volume just to make sure that all the heavy work doesn't mess with my performance in practice/ in matches.
Umm....do you want me to link articles written by experts talking about why unilateral work is good or do you want to know why it is good in my opinion?

If you want to know authors who have written articles about unilateral work then hit up chad waterbury. He seems to be catering to the MMA crowd these days...

You mentioned suitcase deadllifts. I should've explained this.

Suitcase deadlifts where you are holding only one dumbbell in your hand and you are doing high reps makes it an excellent core/ab exercise. That is why it is in there. To strengthen your core because it will force your core to counter the weight of the dumbbell hanging on only one side.

Regarding waving the volume, here's an example:

Friday: Week 1 (High) | Week 2 (Medium) | Week 3 (Very High) | Week 4 (Low)
Deadlifts: 5x2 | 4x2 | 7x2 | 2x2
Bulgarian Squats: 3x7 | 3x6 | 3x7 | 2x6
Standing Dumbbell Unilateral Military Press: 3x8 | 3x7 | 4x7 | 2x7
Chin-ups: 4x5 | 3x5 | 4x5 | 2x5
Suitcase Deadlifts: 3x12 | 2x12 | 3x12 | 2x12

Week 3 - the highest volume week, has you doing 21 sets. Thats not bad at all.

Try it and play around with it. This way you can afford to go balls to the wall week in and week out. BUT, there is one catch: you must be critical and extremely conscious of your form because if you start doing something wrong, it will turn into a huge bad habit.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:01 PM
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^Sorry I was unclear. I just meant in general that I didn't really get the reasoning... pity's explanation makes sense though... and wrestlers do need hips

Your reply made a lot of sense - I get what your design was trying for. Thanks for clearing that up.... I'll see how that goes...

thanks again!
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradler View Post
Kane - aren't a lot of programs like that? It seems like SS (Sq., BP., DL / Sq., MP., PC) is a fair mix of upper and lower, and a lot of programs I see guys trying on here have some full-body component to them. When is it a good idea to mix upper/lower on the same day and when is it inadvisable?
Alot of programs are like that. Recently I've become a big fan of the upper/lower split, but my reaction was more along the lines of 'you haven't got things in there for a reason, they're just there for completeness'

This is what I mean:

Mon:
Squat 3x5
Seated Shoulder Press 3x8
Straight Leg DL 1x8, 2x6
Weighted Situps 3x8

Monday: You have squats starting off, and for arguments sake let's say they're a quad dominant exercise. You've also got them first in the week so that leads me to assume you want to improve them the most or get stronger at squats more than you do another exercise. After squats you move on to shoulders, hamstrings and situps.


Wed:
Flat Bench 3x5
Front Lunges 2x8
Speed Deadlifts 3x10
Speed Bench 2x12

Wednesday: You do flat bench, then some quads, hips, etc with lunges. Then you move to speed deads (which is really you're only deadlift variation) and finally speed bench. I'm assuming speed bench is 2 sets of 12, but imo it should be more like 12 sets of 2.

Fri:
Front Squat 2x6
Floor Press 3x8
Clean and Jerk 3x8
Weighted Situps 3x8

Friday: Starts with front squat (quads), then floor press and clean and jerk for some higher reps working shoulders/tris (for arguments sake).

Here's what I see:
Squats Mon: Supported by Lunges and Front Squats
Flat Bench Wed: Supported by Shoulder Press, Speed Bench, Floor Press and Clean and Jerk
Front Squats Fri: Same deal as monday
Plus there isn't any rowing or shoulder prehab (ie. facepulls), you're pushing/pressing and not really pulling.

Whats leftover is SLDL's and Speed Deads, since they don't really group in anywhere that I could see. (Arguably they could group with themselves and even with the lunges since they've got that hip component to them, I just don't see them being effective in this case)

Basically you've got a ton of quad work and a ton more of shoulder work.

For the 3 day split my 2 cents is that you should have a bench day (or pressing day), a squat day (quad dominant maybe) and a deadlift day (hamstring/hip/lowerback/rows idea)

Anuj brings some very good points and ideas to the table. In this case I think we're swerving off in different directions (full body vs push/pull upper/lower), plus he has me beat since I don't have any reps or exercises pencilled in
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:55 PM
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Gotcha, Kane... I wasn't sure what you meant. I like the idea of the press/squat/dead split a lot - I'm probably going to follow Anuj's simply because it seems more oriented towards overall sports performance and less specifically to lifting, but after season I'll need to change up my routine anyway.

Thanks a ton Kane, that clears up a big point of confusion for me... very helpful.
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