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Training discussion on Recovery, within the Bodybuilding Forum; I'm having a little bit of a problem with the recovery part of my workout schedule. Thing is, I get ...


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Old 01-28-2006, 12:32 PM   #1
brf4n
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Default Recovery

I'm having a little bit of a problem with the recovery part of my workout schedule.

Thing is, I get concerned when I'm waiting 10 days between workouts because of the soreness I experiance.

For example, say I do my tris and chest on day 1, then I can't do anything else (even bis and back or legs) for another 10 days just because my chest doesn't completely heal until then. I feel it cuts into the time I could be using to workout more and it's hard justifying only 3 workouts a month. Seems kinda crazy if I want to increase my lifts.

I should add I only like to workout one group of muscles if ALL other muscles in my body are completely fine. But should I break this habit and work my bis and back even if my chest is still a little sore? Or should I just wait it out?

Any recommendations to speed up my recovery (naturally)? Or recommendations in general?
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:37 PM   #2
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1. How old are you?
2. How long have you been training?
3. What's your diet look like, especially preworkout and post.
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:39 PM   #3
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Never do tris and chest together thats a no no. Do Chest and something else like back. 3 workouts a month! Sorry man but thats just not good enough. try to get in atleast 3 times a week. I find changing up my fucking routine helps my body grow, and not get used to the same old shit. Try different exercizes for your body parts and change up what parts you hit each week. Nothing worse than the same old fkn routine, you will never get gains. Just like women if you stay with the same old muff for to long you get sick of her. So change up your routine and get in the gym atleast 3 times a week brother.

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Old 01-28-2006, 12:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
1. How old are you?
2. How long have you been training?
3. What's your diet look like, especially preworkout and post.

1. 23

2. Just started again but I began when I was 15.

3. Preworkout 45G protein, 60G carbs. Post, at least 30G protein right after and as for carbs I don't really count. I try to get at least 120G protein a day, but that's not enough since I'm 180lbs. I try to get a gram per pound but sometimes that's not always possible. As for fat and carbs, I don't count those, but I try not to overeat. I just try to make sure I get enough protein per day. Usually at least 30 grams per every 3 hours. Chicken, milk, protein bars and shakes. And I try to nap whenever I can (without interrupting my daily schedule).

I find that doing chest without doing tris is almost impossible (same with back and bis). It's always good to group the pushing muscles together and the pulling muscles together. I've gotten the best gains from that, plus it cleans up my routine. If I want to change things up I just substitute bent over rows with weighted pull ups, or dumb bell presses with bar presses. That sort of thing. It really helped when I was younger (not like I'm old now).

Last edited by brf4n; 01-28-2006 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:01 PM   #5
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Well, aside from your protein consumption being absolutely ghastly, I don't really see why you have such intense DOMS to where you actually need 10 days off. I've never heard of that before..Ever.

Like you said, you're just starting up again, which will be very painful at first until your muscles gain their conditioning.

- How many sets/reps are you doing? I ask because maybe you need to cut the volume down drastically until you're capable of doing more.

Also keep in mind that you can still train a sore muscle. Waiting until they "recover" is a bodybuilding myth.

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Old 01-28-2006, 01:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
Well, aside from your protein consumption being absolutely ghastly, I don't really see why you have such intense DOMS to where you actually need 10 days off. I've never heard of that before..Ever.

Like you said, you're just starting up again, which will be very painful at first until your muscles gain their conditioning.

- How many sets/reps are you doing? I ask because maybe you need to cut the volume down drastically until you're capable of doing more.

Also keep in mind that you can still train a sore muscle. Waiting until they "recover" is a bodybuilding myth.

I don't really agree about the myth part seeing as a cut isn't completely 100% until it's scarred over, but all this has gotten me thinking that maybe I need to start doing full body workouts since I'm not getting that good teenage recovery time I'm used to.

I agree with the protein part, I should be getting in at least 180g a day. I try. Do you have any foods you recommend besides eating the same roasted chicken and milk everyday?

Last workout I did 3 sets of 14/11/8 reps. That's not really a good example though cause it was my first workout in a while. What I usually do is increase my weight until I hit only 8 reps, then I use that weight until I lift more than 8 times, then I increase by 5 lbs or less until I hit 8 reps with that weight, then increase and repeat.

I generally go by the HIT training style. You know, focusing on the bigger muscle groups in lifts that work a large range of muscles (bench, rows, squats) with the belief that the smaller muscles will grow just as well if I put all my effort and concentration into those exercises. Just a preference, I'd rather put all my energy into working my lats and having my bis getting secondhand pump rather than spending an hour killing myself doing curls. If I feel that my bis aren't good enough after 3 sets of bent over rows in which I've exhausted my lats I'll hit the curl bar though.

I'm trying to do as high volume and low rep as I can. As long as I get my muscles to fail to the point where I find it impossible to lift my arms after a workout, I'm good.
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brf4n
I don't really agree about the myth part seeing as a cut isn't completely 100% until it's scarred over,
MYTH #4

Never exercise a sore muscle. Before you skip that workout, determine how sore you really are. "If your muscle is sore to the touch or the soreness limits your range of motion, it's best that you give the muscle at least another day of rest," says Alan Mikesky, Ph.D., director of the human performance and biomechanics laboratory at Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis. In less severe instances, an "active rest" involving light aerobic activity and stretching, and even light lifting, can help alleviate some of the soreness. "Light activity stimulates bloodflow through the muscles, which removes waste products to help in the repair process," says David Docherty, Ph.D., a professor of exercise science at the University of Victoria in Canada.

The real expert says: If you're not sore to the touch and you have your full range of motion, go to the gym. Start with 10 minutes of cycling, then exercise the achy muscle by performing no more than three sets of 10 to 15 repetitions using a weight that's no heavier than 30 percent of your one-rep maximum, says Docherty.

Lots more to come. Stay tuned.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 01-28-2006 at 02:13 PM..
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brf4n
I don't really agree about the myth part seeing as a cut isn't completely 100% until it's scarred over,
Keep in mind that a cut has nothing to do with muscles. A cut is an open wound that needs to heal. DOMS is an inflamatory response from working out. Here's some more:

Myth number 4: You should never train a sore muscle, as it is counterproductive to recovery.

The real deal: It is not uncommon for delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) to last four or even five days after the completion of an intense weight-training session; however, many studies have concluded that complete metabolic recovery occurs within 48 hours of exercise. If metabolic recovery has taken place, a muscle can be worked again via the same training method, even if the muscle is still sore from a previous session. Moreover, numerous studies have shown that training a muscle while it is still recovering does not adversely affect recovery.9,10,11,12

Therefore, even if complete metabolic recovery has not yet occurred, the muscle can be trained again. There are two ways to effectively go about working a muscle for a second time within 48 hours of a previous session:
Conduct an "active recovery" session. Many strength-training gurus, including Muscle Media’s own Pavel Tsatsouline, recommend conducting a light, less taxing training session after a heavy, demanding session in order to facilitate recovery, decrease DOMS, and actually maximize strength gains. Pavel notes, "As long as you keep stimulating the nervous system with the stimulus, even if your body is not totally recovered, you’re going to make much better gains." An example of this would be to execute three sets of six reps with a 12RM load (half of what is possible) in the squat on Wednesday after conducting a high-volume squat session on Monday.

Change the stimulus and go all-out again. Since your muscles are still recovering, it would not be advisable to train a given muscle via the same training method before recovery has taken place. Although studies have shown that doing so will not substantially affect metabolic recovery, it will not be of benefit either. However, what will be of benefit is training in a different rep range; this will stimulate different muscle fibers and will yield a different overall physiological response. For example, if you conducted five sets of 10 in the bench press on Monday, you may want to shoot for 10 sets of five, or four sets of 15 come Wedesday.
Obviously, you cannot use the above approach for every muscle group, but it should be utilized to bring up a lagging body part or to accelerate growth in an area you are highly motivated to train.

Strength coach Chad Waterbury points out, "Your body will only increase recovery if you force it to work more frequently. Initially, you may still have residual soreness from the previous workout, but don’t worry. Instead, work through it and the body will improve its recovery rate to the point where soreness will subside." In essence, increasing the frequency of your training will cause you to experience less soreness in the long run.
References This pertains to you.

9 Nosaka K, Clarkson P.M. Muscle damage following repeated bouts of high force eccentric exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc., 27(9):1263-1269,1995.
10 Smith LL., Fuylmer MG., Holbert D., McCammon MR., Houmard JA., Frazer DD., Nsien E., Isreal RG. The impact of repeated bout of eccentric exercise on muscular strength, muscle soreness and creatine kinase. Br J Sp Med 28(4):267-271, 1994.
11 Chen, TC and S.S. Hsieh. The effects of a seven-day repeated eccentric training on recovery from muscle damage. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp. S71, 1999.
12 Nosaka K and M Newton. Repeated eccentric exercise bouts do not exacerbate muscle damage and repair. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):117-22.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 01-28-2006 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:00 PM   #9
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All true. My recovery has greatly increased since I began training more frequently.
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
I generally go by the HIT training style. You know, focusing on the bigger muscle groups in lifts that work a large range of muscles (bench, rows, squats) with the belief that the smaller muscles will grow just as well if I put all my effort and concentration into those exercises. Just a preference, I'd rather put all my energy into working my lats and having my bis getting secondhand pump rather than spending an hour killing myself doing curls.
You got this part right, although it's not just HIT that preaches that...Every successful training protocol aims for heavy compounds with arms a distant second. Refer to my journal...DFT 5x5..Definately not HIT.
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