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Routine Cycling? Periodization? Unloading?

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Old 11-23-2008, 09:55 AM   #1
FlawedGRUNT
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Default Routine Cycling? Periodization? Unloading?

Alright guys so Ive been training hard for the last 5 weeks... finally got back into it. Finally got motivated and been keeping at it. The only things is I have been going 100% the whole time... bench till failure, military, rows... dips... everything to failure with a 3x5 workout routine... I have also been doing HIIT, which i now understand also stresses your CNS... so this week I was finding alot of my workouts extremely difficult. I think I have hit the point where im over training and need to unload and or chance my routine.

So I have seen several different opions on how to do this. Should I keep the same reps and sets and drop the weight or drop the weight and raise the sets and reps?

Ill use bench as an example. Im pretty comfortable with 220 for 3x5

should I go to 70% and,

Example A:
175lbs 3x5

or

Example B
175lbs or less 10-12x3?


I also want to do routine cycling. 4-6 weeks strength focues, 3-4 weeks hypertrophy focused.

Suggestions?

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Old 11-23-2008, 11:08 AM   #2
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you can keep the weight....do a 3x3 on the major lifts for a week...and kinda ditch any accessories.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:16 PM   #3
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And ill probably drop the HIIT.

How do you feel about cycling routines for strength and hypertrophy?
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:07 PM   #4
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How do you feel about cycling routines for strength and hypertrophy?
I like them. That's what I'm doing right now....or it's what I was doing before I injured my hamstring. When I go through a "hypertrophy phase", it's middle ground, not pure hypertrophy training.

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Old 11-23-2008, 01:23 PM   #5
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I like them. That's what I'm doing right now....or it's what I was doing before I injured my hamstring. When I go through a "hypertrophy phase", it's middle ground, not pure hypertrophy training.
Ross, thanks for the reply. Can you give me somewhat of a layout of what you mean by middleground?
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:23 PM   #6
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Also should i take this week off or go back lighter?
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:20 PM   #7
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Flawed when you say that you were finding a lot of your workouts extremely difficult, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean you are loading the bar but missing reps and/or sets, or that it's just moving extremely slow? Or that you can't load the bar at all? Or you had to put less on the bar? Or a combination of any of the above?

It is much more likely at that intensity range that if you are overloading then it is volume overloading. Yes the HIIT stresses the cns to some extent but you've have a hard time quantifying it. Certainly you could just do some low intensity steady state stuff for a bit.

I doubt very much you need an entire week off.

The reason I ask all of this is because pity suggested that you keep/raise the intensity and drop the volume. Which is probable the way to go IMO. But you asked again if you should lighten so I see you're still not sure what to do. So more detail would be needed to help.

I would like to point out that if you are still doing "3x5" training which I assume is SS style then having separate hypertrophy phases at this point is probably a little silly. Ross was speaking of his hyp phases being "middleground", and of course I'll let him speak for himself, but I think he means middleground strength/mass instead of jumping off a cliff and doing nothing but 12's or something.

But 3x5 is just a lower volume more aggressive loading verision of 5x5, in a way. Which IS middleground strength/mass. Now what Ross is saying about going from a more pure strength phase to a hypertrophy phase makes since. But going from a middleground beginner/intermediate phase to a "hypertrophy" phase sounds decidedly inefficient. The fact is you are treating the 3x5 as way more intensity than it is, if you do that.

Doing everything to failure is not a good idea, btw. Failure works well in certain instances for certain things but not the way you're doing it.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:08 PM   #8
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Hey Eric,

As usual thanks for your responses!

I think my confusion comes in part because to me its a two part questions but I asked it in a one part questions. I was already thinking about cycling my routines from strength to hypertrophy and back and forth but this week I started to feel over trained

Its not that I am going to complete failure, but up until last week I was hitting all 3 sets of 5, and now im missing reps as I added weight. Which is to be expected. It wasnt till wed/fri that I started to wonder if im overtraining.

on wednesday I went from 220-225 on bench. but missed one rep on the 2nd set and two on the 3rd... Now like I said I didnt see this as overtraining but I started to notice other things... On tuesday I killed in on the eliptical 5min jog, 6min (30sec sprint/30 sec jog), 5 min cool down... some friday when I went to do the same HIIT I warmed up... got 1.5 min into the jog sprints and had to stop. Felt real fatigued... bad headache (which i also noticed on thursday afternoon), and all my joints hurt in my legs... I also have been real tired since then, even with sleep i feel the need for naps. Like the one i just took.

I'm also starting to think the above because last time I did a 3 x 5 type routine I went from 190 on Bench to 240 on bench adding 5 lbs every week consistently before i struggled and that was without squats and no deads... now do legs every week and i got stuck on 220 for bench... which leads me to believe 3x5 w/ HIIT is leading me to overtraining... IMO

NOW BACK TO THE FIRST QUESTION. CHANGING ROUTINES.

Now I havent been super consistent with the gym in the last 3 years but I finally got some motivation from hell and im pushing harder than ever before for the last 5 weeks. But everytime I have lifted in the past 3 years was a 3 x 4-6 or 3 x 5 or 5x5... Im starting to wonder about playing around with rep ranges to see that works for me so thats what I asked both parts of question

Last edited by FlawedGRUNT; 11-23-2008 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: Added info
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:56 PM   #9
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No, Flawed I did understand they were two separate questions I just didn't orgainize my response very well and plus I figure once more info was given it would all work out in the wash.

So the first question is whether to delaod or take a week off and if it is to deoad how to deload.

That's plenty of info and based on what you are saying Pity and my original reccomendation stands and your should keep the intensity and lower the volume. I mean, simply speaking, your missing REPS not weight, if you get my meaning. You absolute ability has not dropped off only your ability to add/handle volume at ever increasing weight.

IF you feel you need it a small drop off in intensity and volume at first is fine, and then get the intensity back up while keeping the volume low. But imho you probably only need a volume deload and at lower rep ranges and volume you can probably maintain and even increase the intensity.

But let me add A VERY important part. Everybody seems to think...no...frankly we've been TAUGHT to think that you have to know EXACTLY what you need to do and you can't experiment and if you messed up it's just a big old wasted workout YOU'LL NEVER GET BACK

LOL, it's just riduculous. Say you take our recommendation. You go in and keep the intensity up and just hit some triples or doubles (after a GOOD warmup and acclimization) and no matter what you do you just find the bar is moving real slow and you just feel weak, whatever. OK, so change it up. So what? Nothing ventured nothing gained. You'll know whether you need an intensity drop. And this IS a deload. You may find that you feel real strong and you want to spend another week increasing the intensity...you don't have to be in a huge hurry. It's not a race. See what happens.

Again I would take a break from the HIIT or reduce it or change the cardio up, etc...

That's probably the short and simple for the deload. The standard idea would be to reduce the volume by 40 percent and maintain the intensity. I would only use that as a guideline. Take it as an oppurtunity to lift heavy even if it's only doubles if not triples.

There are no rules and you can do whatever feels right to you. Perhaps on the last day of your deload you would choose to leave off all the heavy compounds and do some higher rep supportive stuff. Then a couple days off before going back in...

But I don't know your goals really. There are so many things your could do and I'm trying to get away from just saying what I like, lol. So what would YOU like to do?

I’d recommend you read through this:

http://www.bodybuilding.net/training-forum/my-training-history-12222.html

And for god sake I’m sure other people have some great ideas. I hate when everyone stops posting when I reply!
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:03 PM   #10
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i had to go to work....jeez

you could definitely hit up a 2-3 x 8 setup for a week. and i like eric's idea of friday being just some random accessory shit.

also...if it's not overtraining, and you've just hit a roadblock...you can always drop the weight back and then progress from there...or...my favorite (from eric)...hit up some heavy doubles and triples and then do one or two back off sets with the weight your stuck at. hitting some heavy stuff, and then dropping back to what your stuck on..will make that weight seem lighter. it works.

say you're stuck at 220, for 3 x 5. take 240 and do 3 x 2-3...and then drop back and do 220 for 2 sets and see how many reps you get.

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