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  #71  
Old 05-15-2006, 07:14 AM
jagsfan05 jagsfan05 is offline
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What about reverse flyes? I studied them...would they be another good back exercise to do? And in this book I have that lists exercises to do for weight lifting it says deadlifts are a workout for the upper legs and it says nothing about the back. Thats why I asked.
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  #72  
Old 05-15-2006, 07:59 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Wow. Someone would have to have a pretty poor understanding of physiology to say that deadlifts are not for the back. In fact they're almost a whole body exercise.

Reverse flyes? Is that the same as Rear Dbell raises? Sounds like rear delts (shoulders). The upper back would get worked lightly but the shoulders would be a limiting factor. Since the muscles of the back are so very large in comparison it can't really be considered a back exercise. Nowhere near what the deadlifts, rows and other stuff you are doing. Not to mention squats.

Your back is covered.
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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  #73  
Old 05-22-2006, 09:17 AM
jagsfan05 jagsfan05 is offline
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Oh ok. Man I hate doing backs on Monday because I feel like I am always doing something wrong. It never feels like my back is getting a workout when I do the exercises.
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  #74  
Old 05-24-2006, 05:43 AM
BrianMcG BrianMcG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagsfan05
I am confused, if deadlift is so popular like bench press and squats...then why do I never see anyone doing them here at the YMCA? And I have tried doing them but they are giving me pressure in my thighs and I dont feel it in my back. Plus squats kill me on Fridays and over the weekend and until Monday my thighs are killing me so it's hard to do those deadlifts on Monday because I feel it in my thighs and not my back.

The deadlift is only popular with people that really know what they are doing. That is why you don't see many people doing them at the Y as there probably not that many people there that know what they are doing.

At the local Y in my town most people are doing all their beach muscles getting ready for summer. There are very few people that I would call weightlifters or bodybuilders. Just because someone lifts weights every once in a while doesn't mean they are one of these.
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  #75  
Old 05-24-2006, 05:47 AM
BrianMcG BrianMcG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagsfan05
Oh ok. Man I hate doing backs on Monday because I feel like I am always doing something wrong. It never feels like my back is getting a workout when I do the exercises.

This is very common for a beginner. Usually, when someone starts doing upper body exercise they generally feel them in the arms (I'm referring to compound movements, such as bench press or barbell rows). As you progress in weight in these exercises, the arms can not keep up with the weight increase and your body has to recruit the larger muscles in order to get the weight up.

Just keep at it. In a few months you will start feeling the weight in the muscles you are supposed to.
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  #76  
Old 06-02-2006, 09:48 AM
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Sleeper Sleeper is offline
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jagsfan05 congrats on embarking on a great hobby and lifestyle.
Dont get too caught up on training the small muscles like biceps and such.
Your goal is to train the larger muscles as hard as you can, back off rest and grow.

I personaly never train more than two days in a row. I have been at it for 20 years plus and have always noticed if I try for a third day I feel like a car in bad need of an oil change.

I would also think in terms of groups like

Day One Chest
I would do maybe a couple sets of flat and incline presses
then a little abs

Day Two Legs
Your goal is either squat or leg presses heavy for two sets then a rep set
finish off with a few sets of leg curls and calf raises

Day Three Off
Do something else and Im talking away from the gym

Day Four Off
Same

Day Five Back
Your goal is some heavy rows or deadlifts
then finish off some pullups or front pulldowns

Day Six Shoulders
Hit the military press and shrugs

Day Seven Off

Day Eight Arms
Your goal is some dips or overhead extensions
then some good ole ez bar curls and finish off with seated dumbell curls

Day Nine and Ten Off

start cycle over
Throw the calandar out the door think of training as bodu cyles not weeks or such. Listen to your body not someone elses. Your body will tell you if a movement is just not your cup of tea.

Keep it simple is your goal. Never do more than 6 sets a body part and
DO NOT train to failure on warm up sets.
Good Luck
Sleeper
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  #77  
Old 06-02-2006, 12:25 PM
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Thumbs up Young and Impressionable get ready

jagsfan05 you are needlessly worrying. I know Ive been their and done that.
I read a thread where you were afraid that if you only hit your biceps once a week they would atrophie. Will I hate to dissapoint you but they are not going to shrink.
Remember when you do bent rows or pulldowns for your back your are also working your biceps. When you do Bench Presses or any presses you are also working your triceps. Think about it,your arms have to be grabbing and either pulling or pushing against something eveytime you train your upper body. Pushing spells tricep involvement pulling means bicep involement. If you are directly training your triceps are biceps twice a week I hate to say it but you will not get those biceps your desiring. If you hit those larger muscles super hard the arms will take care of themselves. I get a kick out of folks that tell me they need to train each muscle group twice a week. The body doesnt know and doesnt give two shits about what day of the week its is being trained. All it knows is how the weights are tearing it down and how it needs to recover and adapt to what your throwing at it. The human body has to be subjected to something it has to adapt to. Just like 0311 wrote
Rome was not built in a day"
I also think that as thin as you are you need to make a descision do I want to gain mass or do I want to keep playing tennis and weight training and spin my wheels the ball is in your court.
Good Luck
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  #78  
Old 06-02-2006, 02:07 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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We've actually been over most of this before. I don't even know exactly what Jags is doing in terms of sets and reps (i.e. volume) and all I know is a list of exerices with a once every 7 days frequency. You're advising him to go from that to once every 10 days frequency with what seems like less volume. Except perhaps for the fact that you've got a separate day for direct arm work which makes up for some of it.

I'm sorry but I can't see the logic in advising less frequency and volume at this point. Once a week is already on the edge of effectiveness for most people and even less frequency than that is just completely sub par with few exceptions in terms of protocol. The fact is that the majority of trainees will do better with even more frequency....2 or even 3 times a week. Ultra low frequency high volume work only works best for a relatively few people with favorable genetics, or juicers or absolute beginners.

My advice would be to keep doing what you are doing, Jags, if it is working.
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  #79  
Old 06-08-2006, 10:47 AM
Darkhorse Darkhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
I'm sorry but I can't see the logic in advising less frequency and volume at this point.
I agree.

Training once a week riding the supercompensation wave is one of the worst ways to train unless you're chemically enhanced. It works for a lot of people because either they're new or there's a significant overlap->Something like doing closegrip bench on "arms" day also works your chest. All once a week implies is growing for 3 days, maintaining for 4 until you workout that muscle again. Protein synthesis is elevated for 3 days after lifting..So at the very least you should be doing a twice a week frequency to keep that wave length of growth high.
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  #80  
Old 06-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Darkhorse Darkhorse is offline
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Many people with more experience than everyone here echoes this fact. Back 10 years ago, everyone was thinking that Joe Wieder principles was the way to go, and arms need their own day Times have changed!
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