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Training discussion on Squat rx, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Here is some excellent videos on squat form and all things related. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=squat+rx Hope this helps others as much as ...


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Old 09-30-2007, 02:53 AM   #1
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Default Squat rx

Here is some excellent videos on squat form and all things related.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=squat+rx

Hope this helps others as much as its helping me!!
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:42 AM   #2
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Great stuff Hopper! very helpfull, thanks.
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:42 AM   #3
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Good info. Especially on flexibility.

I was surprised with vid 2, though: goodmorings out of the hole. As I said the info on improving flexibility was great but he really glossed over the primary issue here and the solutions, to me, weren’t very efficient.

Goodmornings out of the hole are VERY often related to strength of the legs. That may be partly due to body type.

I understand why he mentioned quad dominance. Because it may seem like the idea is the weight is being shifted more onto the toes and therefore the quads. But the big point is the weight is being shifted onto the spinal erectors. If the only way you can get a weight moving is for it to be shifted to empahsise a certain muscle or group of muscles....it is because that muscle is the strongest.

When your hips come up first, transferring your weight to the back that can be because your back is simply the strongest link in the chain. Maybe you have long legs and a short back or whatever but it is simply your body’s way of using the parts that can get the job done. Your glutes and hams are too weak to get you out of the hole so the back takes over the lift turning it into a goodmoring. Pure and simple.

There comes a time when you simply need to strengthen certain muscles and then later on bring this strength to bear with lots of practice with the exercise in question. For goodmornings out of the hole it is best to focus on pure leg things that don’t allow the lower back to be a factor but also that really emphasize the the glutes, hams, and quads. Basically strengthen the weakest links.

I don’t see how goodmoring squats are going to do that and box squats, although they teach you how to use the hip muscles better, do not take the lower back out of it. You are simply trying to overcome it like it’s an issue of ‘form’ rather than pure mechanics.

I would use single leg stuff but also glute ham raises, stiff-legged deads, swing- thrus with a tight arch to emphasize glutes and hams and also pullthroughs used the same way. Basically anything closed-chain that can bring up all these things I mentioned.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:03 AM   #4
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Good info.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:53 PM   #5
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Let me start off by saying that I'm very flattered that the Squat Rx videos have been getting a lot of views and attention. I try to google "Squat Rx" from time to time and see who's watching and found your forum - THANK YOU!

I wanted to address Eric's points briefly.

Eric,
I agree wholeheartedly that GMs out of the hole can be caused by weaknesses - only a moron would argue otherwise, especially if the problem is only surfacing when doing heavy singles, doubles, and triples. We could probably argue about what is a flexibility issue, what is a strength/weakness issue, and what is a form issue, but I hope we can agree that they are all interrelated.

The reason I made the first two Squat Rx videos was to address basic form issues that I saw in the gym and in video postings to message boards. Most people on the internet THINK their form is good - we know it usually isn't. Most people THINK they are squatting to parallel - they definately are not.

The videos aren't perfect. Looking back on the first two Squat Rx'es especially, there are a lot of things (the wall walks and wall squats, for example) that, if I were to redo them, I'd probably omit or put elsewhere. I would definately do the mobility segment differently. I'd probably sequence the content of the segments differently too.

In any case, I don't disagree with anything you've said in your post and I think I mention the glute/ham connection to form in Squat Rx #3. Glute/hamstring strength and recruitment issue is covered pretty well in Squat Rx #3 (Part I & II) though and even though I split it into 2 parts, I'm still planning on doing another segment on the subject.

Hopefully, people who are watching the videos will look at things wholistically and not focus on individual drills, stretches, and exercises that may lead to very marginal improvement, but rather become more aware of what to look for as far as squat form errors and possible causes.

Thank you for the feedback. I sincerely appreciate it.

Boris
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:45 PM   #6
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Hey, Boris. Yes. I did see that you addressed some of those points I mentioned in later vids. Also, let me say that I LIKE the videos a lot. Anything I say I hope you don't take as a criticism but more as something I just happen to think is important. Nobody can address every thing that may be pertinent in one vid and I totally agree that people would need to view them holistically. So my purpose was to have someone recognize a very likely cause of GM's out of the hole in case they didn't put the two issues together.

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I agree wholeheartedly that GMs out of the hole can be caused by weaknesses - only a moron would argue otherwise, especially if the problem is only surfacing when doing heavy singles, doubles, and triples. We could probably argue about what is a flexibility issue, what is a strength/weakness issue, and what is a form issue, but I hope we can agree that they are all interrelated.
I wholeheartedly agree that they are interrelated. In fact I think it would be silly of us to discuss what is a strength/weakness and what is a flexibility problem because these things tend to be tied together. An example would be having tight and hypertonic upper traps (probably pretty common) and loose and inhibited lower and mid traps resulting in compromised shoulder girdle. So in simple terms you have something that is strong, overpowering, and could benefit from stretching and something that is inhibited and "loose" and could benefit from more strengthening and activation. It would be rare to have one without it's opposite

So in my post I didn't mention all of that but it is a BIG part of it and I didn't intend to discount any of it. Hell, it gets even more complicated when you realize that a muscle can be long and "tight" at the same time. I gurantee that if there is a weakness causing GM's out of the hole (a very common problem that I'm glad you put up front) then there is also tight and hypertonic areas that need stretching. Hip flexors, lumbar erectors and maybe even hams if the glutes are inhibited.

Your points about form are well taken!

Welcome to the forum.

Last edited by EricT; 10-10-2007 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:32 PM   #7
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yeah, welcome to the forum dude.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:40 PM   #8
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Thanks guys.

Eric,
I'd like to do a Squat Rx on hypertonicity, hypermobility, flaccidity, etc. but I think it would be a little more involved than most would prefer and I'd have to think about how to present it in the most practical manner. I touched on thoracic, etc. flexibility here and there, but definately a lot of uncovered material yet.

I've had a few people say they'd like to see something on restorative measures and it's something I could present basic info on. I've had some experience w. myofascial release massage and shiatsu - not enough to teach responsibly, but enough to at least touch on (pun).

Thanks again for the input.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:34 AM   #9
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Yeah, it would be crazy involved. Too many variables and likely combinations.

As far myofascial release...me and the foam roller are now best friends (let the jokes begin ).

I would not recommend the goodmornings to learn glute and ham activation and especially glute until I was sure someone actually knew the difference between hip and lumbar flexion. I think many people without personal supervision would just be doing the exercise with lumbar flexion and not really "engaging the glutes". I would go forward with more basic glute and ham activation things and as for weight bearing stick with single leg variations and perhaps things like pull-throughs and Romanians, saving the goodmornings for a more advanced time. But I have to admit I have a big problem with the wholesale recommendation of goodmornings that seems to be the trend these days. There are just too many effective exercises that will do the job without as much risk as the GM. I agree that it could be a good movement to learn the feel of hip flexion vs. lumbar flexion but I wouldn't trust most people not to overdo the weight.

Last edited by EricT; 10-11-2007 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:54 PM   #10
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I certainly agree with your concerns about beginners using the exercise.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "wholesale recommendation of good mornings that seems to be the trend"... I rarely step inside commercial gyms, but I can honestly say that, except for PLers, I can't remember seeing a single person doing them.

As far as risk goes, the same thing could be (and is) said about squats. It's almost a cliche now, but as Louie said "A perfectly safe exercise is a perfectly useless exercise".

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on good mornings.
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