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starting a DFT regiment

Training discussion on starting a DFT regiment, within the Bodybuilding Forum; i've read through 0311's post on DFT 5x5 a few times now and i have a few questions about that ...


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Old 01-06-2006, 11:07 PM   #1
shader
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Default starting a DFT regiment

i've read through 0311's post on DFT 5x5 a few times now and i have a few questions about that method of training that are still unclear to me. and if anything i ask here is answered in another post or somewhere in the DFT 5x5 guide, please let me know so i can look it over. first off in all of the suggested workouts, squats are always listed, but those are the bane of my existence (i'm 6'5" and from what i've heard, all other tall guys hate squats; particularly always seems to hurt my back). so is there any suitable substitute? also for the sets/reps do you start at a certain percentage of 1RM and then move up incrementally or just take one weight and stay with that for 5 sets?
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Old 01-07-2006, 06:20 AM   #2
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Unhappy you hate squats!?!

Ouch... sorry to hear that.
Is this because of an injury?

Well I would try either hack squats, because you have some back support and you said that reg. squats hurt your back, or leg press. Both are compound movements that you can go heavy on.

If this isn't from an injury:

I would try doing them and working on form, maybe get a belt if you don't have one already. and maybe work on two or three sets as a warmup to doing hack squats or leg press. and on workout 2 just try doing them slow and really utilize the amount of Time Under Tention.

I use to never do squats also and always gravitated to hack squats because of a back injury. but ever since a friend of mine convinced me to start out slow and really work on form and your core muscles for stabilization. I've grown to love them and they are my favorite exercise.

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Old 01-07-2006, 11:51 AM   #3
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no, no back injury, just always used to feel bad when doing squats. no one ever told me my form looked really bad so i didn't think it was that, so i thought maybe it was just me, but pretty much every other guy near my size that i've talked to hates squats and won't do them. but shorter people swear by them (and i realize why, because it is such a great compound exercise)

also i need to get an idea of some other exercises i can do that incorporate compound movements. everything that i do now is pretty isolated (leg press, bench press, shoulder press). or would it be ok do a DFT workout like this:

bench
leg press/hack squat
deadlift
rows
pulldowns/pullups

and then do that like 3x a week? do that for 3 weeks, then take a week recovery and then up the volume for the next 2 weeks, then another week rest and then repeat?
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Old 01-07-2006, 02:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shader
everything that i do now is pretty isolated (leg press, bench press, shoulder press)
Those are all compounds :cool:

Isolated exercises would be quad extensions, flyes, side laterals, etc.
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Old 01-07-2006, 02:50 PM   #5
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Taller=longer back=higher center of gravity=more back discomfort in squatting.

Answer=build up the back and the stabilizer muscles like chinpeace suggested. The torso muscles come into play here. In other words, some
of the back pain you experience could be the result of weak abdominal
stabilizers.

Squats, deadlifts, etc. will help fix this. Also direct torso, ab work. The higher frequency is gonna help here, too.

In addressing these problems, as long as there is really no injury (and to
some extent even if there is) I would stay away from a lifting belt. That
abdominal cincture effect replaces what the muscles are supposed to be
doing for themselves and so will be a detriment, not and aid to alleviating
the weaknesses.

IMO, if you avoid working on squats, you will really be handicapping yourself. You really should try your best to have squats in your routine.
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Old 01-07-2006, 05:03 PM   #6
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There are absolutely no substitute for squats.

Take Eric's advice and work on your back/stabalizers. Work on A2G squats...Start with no weight on the bar and get used to it. There's some very tall guys at my gym who can A2G squat with the best of them.

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Old 01-08-2006, 11:23 AM   #7
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thank you guys for being so helpful. i tried out some squats last night with light weights and i did not experience any discomfort, so i will just try to work up from lighter weights. i have a question now about my understanding of a DFT workout regiment

example workout:
barbell bench press
incline/decline press
squats
deadlift
pulldown/pullups
seated row

Quote:
Originally Posted by shader
and then do that like 3x a week? do that for 3 weeks, then take a week recovery and then up the volume for the next 2 weeks, then another week rest and then repeat?
is that the correct idea? or am i missing the point entirely?
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Old 01-08-2006, 11:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shader
thank you guys for being so helpful. i tried out some squats last night with light weights and i did not experience any discomfort, so i will just try to work up from lighter weights. i have a question now about my understanding of a DFT workout regiment

example workout:
barbell bench press
incline/decline press
squats
deadlift
pulldown/pullups
seated row

is that the correct idea? or am i missing the point entirely?
Those are the movements you do but not in one workout.



These are how they are put togeather for the week.
Quote:
The 5X5:

Monday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (working up to max set) [1x5]
Accessory (Skullcrushers: 3x8-10)

Wednesday:

Front Squats 5x5 (reduced 20% from Monday)
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Weighted Pull ups 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (barbell/incline curls: 3x8-10) [Alternating each week]

Friday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up to max set) [1x5]
Benching 5x5 (incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (weighted dips: 3x8-10)
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Old 01-08-2006, 06:40 PM   #9
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IMO, I don't think you're really ready for a dual factor 5x5. You need to address your weak points (A2G squating) before you tackle this. There is a single factor 5x5 which is the same thing, but you slowly increase the weights from workout to workout for weeks on end. It's a lot better for your first time instead of trying a much more aggressive 4 weeks loading, 1 week deload.

Quote:
Monday Heavy Day
Squat 5 sets of 5
Bench 5 sets of 5
Powercleans 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday Light Day
Squat 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench 4 sets of 5
High Pulls 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps 3 sets of 8 each
Full writeup can be found by clicking here!

In my opinion, this is a VERY effective program that will allow you to increase your proficiency in these core lifts. Even someone with a lot of experience will find this program very beneficial. You get what you put into it. After you are proficient with the program, then you can be better suited to find your RM's for the dual factor program and plug them in for a more aggressive loading block.
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Old 01-14-2006, 04:37 PM   #10
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ok, i've been doing the squats for a week now and it doesn't hurt my back. i guess when i used to do them i did in fact have horrible form or my core muscles were just weaksauce
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