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Starting Strength vs. 10x5 set model?

Training discussion on Starting Strength vs. 10x5 set model?, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Hmm.. I started reading Ahuld's Enc. of Bodybuilding.. And as was predicted here, it has indeed screwed me up.. LOL ...


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Old 04-02-2009, 11:16 AM   #1
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Default Starting Strength vs. 10x5 set model?

Hmm..

I started reading Ahuld's Enc. of Bodybuilding..

And as was predicted here, it has indeed screwed me up.. LOL

When I started getting serious about weight training last Sept, it was recommended I start with Starting Strength (Rippentoe), as I wasn't at that point doing any deadlifts, squats, or chin ups..

But why are 10 rep, 5 set decreasing weights as you go excersizes recommended for bodybuilding, rather than the 5x3 working sets in the SS weightlifter tome?

What about the 5x5 model?

I'll keep reading the Encyclopedia, and once done I'll re-read the Starting Strength book..

But could you share your thoughts now and save me some head scratching?

Last edited by dougz; 04-02-2009 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:30 AM   #2
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5 x 10's....more for just hypertrophy, not for strength.

3 x 5...moreso for strength...and some hypertrophy.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:08 PM   #3
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Should I be looking into getting into higher reps, now that I've been doing the SS programming for a while?

I'm training to build muscle, not lift 400lbs one time at competitions..

(not that I think I'm not going to build muscle training to do just that!)
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:24 PM   #4
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I wouldnt change a thing if you are progressing Dougz

I always feel like people need to "earn" the right to do hypertrophy work, by first getting strong!! Not much hypertrophy going on if your doing sets of 10-12 in the squat with 135lbs.Stick with the basics, get strong as a bull, work on your mobility get enough protein to feed 2people and I'll bet you see more hypertrophy from that than with arnolds routine.

Read the stickies here on conjugate training, this is where your training should be heading once the initial SS gains stop.I'm not saying you need to focus on powerlifting only but just focus on getting stronger and faster on the main lifts, use your assistence stuff to drive hypertrophy gains, fix imbalances (think unilateral stuff here) and reinforce your main lifts.That simple.Oh yeah and dont forget to eat that protein BY THE TRUCKLOAD, and do your mobility and foam rolling work.

Easy!!

Eric also has some great resources listed here and at his site that IMO you should be reading before Arnolds book.

HIThopper's Sig:There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a Fucking Pussy. I have no time or patience for Fucking Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this.- Mark Rippetoe

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Old 04-02-2009, 01:21 PM   #5
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Conjugate training (I'm a long way from that, I think), Eric T site..

Got it, thanks!

Like I say, I'm not knocking the SS..
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:33 PM   #6
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When I say gains I mean strength gains.The muscle will come provided your diet is optimal as you continue to add strength.

I was looking at your journal, your def still moving forward, I wouldnt change too much while things are goin well

I notice you dont take in alot of calories, are you trying to drop fat?
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
When I say gains I mean strength gains.The muscle will come provided your diet is optimal as you continue to add strength.
You caught that, eh?

LOL

Dumb question..

Of COURSE the strength gains will continue if you keep adding weight!

But I guess you COULD get to the point where you just can't move the weight anymore..

That's certainly how I feel about my bench right now..

Seem to be stuck at 210, and I keep having to knock it down 20 and work my way up to it again..

I tried heavy triples, but just this last WO I was slow and sloppy again..

maybe it was just a bad preWO nutrition day, I dunno..

But I digress.. LOL

Quote:
I notice you dont take in alot of calories, are you trying to drop fat?
Yeah, trying to keep it in the 2700-2900 range..

Wanna get down to 20% bf.

Last edited by dougz; 04-02-2009 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:41 PM   #8
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You don't need to do just one of the two. You CAN do high reps for some exercises and low reps for others. The thing is that with the programming of SS model, because you are hitting almost all lifts or their variations 3x a week, you can't have much variation in the set-rep scheme without adversely affecting recovery.

HOWEVER, you could simply change up your SS model a bit and add in a few things which you might find beneficial.

I know from personal experience that I would simply HATE to do squats, deads or bench press above 3 reps lol...But, if I am going to be doing push-ups, dumbbell presses, lunges, etc I want to keep the reps higher because I am not training those lifts to maximum capacity in terms of absolute strength.

SO, lets say you want to switch things over (and this is all assuming that you aren't progressing - I am totally in favor of what HITHopper has advocated in his posts earlier), this is one way you could make changes:

MONDAY
Mobility Drills
Deadlifts 5x3
Pull-ups 5 sets to failure
Standing Unilateral Shoulder Press 3x8-12
Cable Rows 2-3 sets of 10-12 reps
Ab Work

WEDNESDAY
Mobility Drills
Unilateral Box Squats (do some practice here because the end goal is to be able to do them without a box aka Pistol Squats)
Glute Ham Raises 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps
Flat Bench Press 5x3
Low Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 3x8-12
Chin-ups 4-5 sets to failure
Ab Work

FRIDAY
Mobility Drills
Overhead Squats 2-3 sets of 3-4 reps
Front Squats 5x3
Back Squats 2-3 sets of 5-6 reps depending on how you feel
Dumbbell Rows 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Push-ups 5-10 sets of 10+ reps depending on how you feel

--x--

This is basically it. You don't even need to do back squats on Friday because IMO OH Squats and Front Squats put together kick Back Squats out of the court

With these changes you are getting QUALITY work done - and that is the key factor: not how many reps you are doing or which exercises but QUALITY of what you are doing to achieve your goals of losing weight and getting strong.

If you want to lose weight buy Leigh Peele's Fat Loss Troubleshooter. I got the link in my sig. It's probably the best $70 you'll ever spend. If you don't click on the link in my sig you're gonna get banned....(j/k..not quite ;) )

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Old 04-02-2009, 06:50 PM   #9
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Nice post Anuj.

Pretty much what I was trying to say, focus on your strength training for your compounds and hit your rep work with your supp. stuff.Eat like a fucking horse and do your mobility work too.

I agree with all that wolf posted, except the front squats, I can see their benefit, BUT I hate them LOL which means I prob should work on em!!

Side note Does the FLT have info on lean massing etc.I mean gaining size whilst limiting bodyfat gains?
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Side note Does the FLT have info on lean massing etc.I mean gaining size whilst limiting bodyfat gains?
Not that I can remember , but she does say whatever will work for a deflict will work for a surplus , but with more cals.
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