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dpaine88 01-30-2008 06:10 PM

working out each group 1x a week or 2x? 3 day or 4 day split?
 
Hello I am new here but have been on bodybuilding.com for a while and have seen a lot of posts jumping to this forum so I figured I would give it a shot as well.

Ok I am 6ft tall , male, and 175 lbs. About 12% bf or so. I have been lifting for 2 months now(have lifted much more but off and on in past 4 years). I had been eating far too little to gain mass as that was not my main goal but now my main goal is to get some serious mass and muscle with as little fat gained as possible.

I eat a pretty clean diet and get at least 1 gram of protien, probably close to 1.5g per my bodyweight and try to get as many calories as I can. Bulking at the moment. Diet conists of tons of water, lots of meat(mainly chicken and tuna) lots of veggies, lots of cottage cheese/lf yogurt, lots of oats.

I also take some whey protien here and there If I cant get some real protien and I also take a Multi-V daily.

Right now I am doing a 3 day split that looks like this.


Monday : Legs / Abs
Squats
Leg Press
Leg Extension


Wednesday: Chest/Arms/Abs

Bench Press
Incline Bench
Bicep Curls
Dumbbell Flys
Skullcrushers

Friday : Back/Shoulders/Abs

Lateral Pulldown
One-Armed Dumbbell Row
Row Machine(unsure of name)

Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Shrugs
Military Press
Side Laterals


Saturday : Cardio
30-45 minutes cardio workout


However, I have been doing some talking with my workout partner(a bit more experienced than I). He suggests maybe doing each muscle group 2 times a week for a 4 day workout. Like Workout A on Monday and Thursday and workout B on Tuesday and Friday.

Any comments on whether swithing to a 4 day split would be optimal or just the 3 day? Would hitting the major muscle groups 2x a week be better than just one?( I would assume so, I dont get very sore anymore)

Thanks in advance.


I was playing around with some of the mass building exercises and came up with this routine.

Workout A ( Mon and Thurs)Chest/Arms/Legs
Bench Press
Incline Bench
DB Flys

Squats
Calf Raises

BB Curls
Tricep Pulldowns/Skullcrushers

Workout B (Tues and Fri) Shoulders/Back

Deadlifts
Bent Over BB Rows
Pull Ups

Standing Overhead Press
DB Press
Side Laterals/shrugs

Ross86 01-30-2008 07:00 PM

I pulled this straight from my journal:
Monday - Upper, heavy
Incline BB Bench Press - 4X6
T-bar Row - 4X6
Flat DB Bench Press - 4X6
Overhead tricep ext - 4X8
Ab work
25 min cardio

Tuesday - Lower, light
Front Squats - 4X8
Calve raises - 4X15
Weighted lunges - 4X15
Ab work
25 min cardio

Wednesday - descanso

Thursday - Upper, light
Closehand Bench Press - 4X8
Shrugs - 4X8
Pull ups - 4X8
Curls - 4X8
25 min cardio

Friday - Lower, heavy
Week A - Deadlifts - 4/5X3
Week B - Squats - 4X6 + Romanian Deadlifts - 4X8 (light)
Leg Press - 4X6
Calve Raises - 4X15
Ab work

BUT.....it has a bunch of specific stuff. The order of the muscles worked and the lifts I did were based on specific areas I was trying to improve on. So I will generalize it a little.

Monday - Lower, heavy
Week A - Deadlifts - 4/5X3
Week B - Squats - 4X6 + Romanian Deadlifts - 4X8 (light)
Leg Press - 4X6
Calve Raises - 4X15
Ab work

Tuesday - Upper, light
Closehand Bench Press - 4X8
Shrugs - 4X8
Pull ups - 4X8
Curls - 4X8
25 min cardio

Wednesday - break

Thursday - Lower, light
Front Squats - 4X8
Calve raises - 4X15
Weighted lunges - 4X15
Ab work
25 min cardio

Friday - Upper, heavy
BB Bench Press - 4X6
Miliary Press - 4X6
T-bar Row - 4X6
Overhead tricep ext - 4X8
Ab work
25 min cardio


This is just an idea.

hrdgain81 01-31-2008 07:26 AM

I'm not a big fan of splits, I used to do them a lot when I was younger ... upper/lower, push/pull, ect and I didnt see much by way of strength or mass gains. Have you looked into fullbody workouts?

mac 01-31-2008 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrdgain81 (Post 47619)
I'm not a big fan of splits, I used to do them a lot when I was younger ... upper/lower, push/pull, ect and I didnt see much by way of strength or mass gains. Have you looked into fullbody workouts?

Yeah I was the same way.......hrdgain is right, I love fullbody workouts don't think I'll ever go back to a split. I've niticed alot of growth and increase in strength with fullbody workouts

Ross86 01-31-2008 11:27 AM

I agree also...much better doing full body. I did that to take a break from my full body workout and to work on a few problemed areas. I improved my chest a good bit, so I'm back to DFT 5X5.

EricT 01-31-2008 12:31 PM

Upper/lowers or other higher frequency splits can be very effective and certainly as good as a fullbody if programmed right. They can also give your a lot more freedom and versatility for more advanced work. Fullbodies are great for when they work and for one you don't have other issues that need to be ironed out (for which a higher frequency split can be much better, imo) But they can be limiting in many ways. Lord knows I worked the heck out of fullbodies, but no one can find one ultimate way of training that will always be the best. Planned overreaching, likewise, is just one tool in many.

I think the mistake people make is that with fullbodies they rely on tried and true programs that have distribution of intensity, volume, etc....there is fatigue managment built it...basically it's all been figured out and somewhat perfected for general use. Or, if not that, it's just the pure simplicity of the program that comes to the rescue. For some of the splits, people try to get all fancy and program stuff they really lack the expertise to do.

When it comes to something like upper/lowers the mistake is that people fail to properly distribute things, get less "results" and blame it on the method rather than the utilization.

Hell, most people just push too much volume in the first place. I've noticed a misunderstanding in the use of "heavy" and "light" days also. People are assuming that anything with "higher reps" is automatically easier and contstitutes recovery for your body versus "heavy" days. Even though the light days have beaucoup volume and things are usually being done near too failure. If you are taking around a 12 rep max, for instance, and doing 3 or 4 sets of 10 it's not really "light". The weight is lighter sure, but the effort is not light. The metabolic demands it places on the body is not necessarily light. This is not to say you can't do that of course!

For an example, when I do upper lowers the "volume" or higher rep days are just as demanding on my recovery as the "heavy" days, and according to what I'm dong, can take longer to recover from, except perhaps for heavy deadlift days sometimes.

hrdgain81 01-31-2008 01:31 PM

All valid points eric, Its not just split vs full body. If it was that simple, everyone would be doing one or the other. Volume,intensity and programing must come into play. As a whole though, for me atleast, I've had much more success with full body, then I did with any split thus far, or with one body part per day.

I also feel inclined to point out, diet, supplimentation, and aas use come into play here also. If your cycling, you can pretty much beat the hell out of your body, and you will recover, and be ready to lift the next day, or the day after. I suppose this comes under programing, and knowing your body, and your personal recovery rate, regardless. But when you get to deep into the details, most people seem to over think things, which isnt good either.


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