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Old 08-23-2006, 08:22 AM
phreaknite phreaknite is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreaknite
I have a wealth of information in my head I would be willing to discuss with you one on one if you want to discuss it over AIM, MSN or even in private messages. (AIM = phreaknite, MSN = phreaknite@hotmail.com)

I noticed you do that a lot. No offence but if your info is so good then why don't you share it with the forum? Also, be careful of taking everything that applies to you and extrapolating that to the general population. Lots of people succesfully lose weight but until you've actually worked with many, many people and have learned to tailor things to what works for different individuals then it's not appropriate to set yourself up as an "expert".
The reason is because i type up a lot and a lot of stuff and would rather not get long winded and boring for peopole so i figured I would be on a 1 on 1 basis to be more helpful. I did it once and it worked out, so i did it again......i won't do it again to protect the spirit of the forum.

I respect your criticism of me and I will refrain from giving advice short handedly or not stating my whole case again. It appears when I do, I anger other people here and other people think my claims are not founded on experiance or research. To me this is a place to learn and to teach what I have learned. I would rather not get that confused with anything else and have us all learn from each other and I apologize if my presentation or information has made it seemed like I thought of myself as an "expert" because I have told you before I have much to learn.....but that doesn't mean I havent learned more than people such as SickOfIt and that I can not try to help and motivate him.

Now, let me just rebutt some of your rebuttals, so we learn from each other.

Here is a quote from the University of Maryland Medical Center's website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by University Of Maryland Medical Center
Weight loss

Capsaicin is also considered a thermogenic substance, which means that it allows you to burn more calories from food, particularly when eating a high fat meal. For this reason, some weight loss supplements contain capsaicin. There are no studies examining the safety and effectiveness of capsaicin for helping people lose weight, however.
Here is another quote from Barbara J. Moore, PhD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara J. Moore, PhD
-- Metabolism Accelerators -- Calorie Wasting Supplements

(Krebs Cycle, Mitochondriacs, Fat transporters, glucose transporters, thyroid hormone stimulators, etc.)
A number of dietary supplements claim to waste calories by speeding up your metabolism in a variety of different ways. Some claim to stimulate your thyroid gland and increase production of active thyroid hormones. An example is Tiratricol which is a substance the FDA considers dangerous and is taking steps to remove from the market. Other dietary supplements claim to have a stimulating effect on the selective uptake and burning of glucose by muscle which they claim helps weight control by wasting calories while building muscle. Garcinia Cambogia (also known as Brindleberry) and Chromium picolinate (and other chromium supplements) are examples of this type. Others, like Capsicum or Capsaicin, claim to have a specific effect on heat production, which is a calorie wasting process. Still others like Pyruvate and the Ephedra compounds discussed above claim to have a general effect as a metabolism accelerator or calorie waster. The general criticism of these compounds is that they are not well studied from the standpoint of either effectiveness or safety. As discussed above, the Ephedra compounds are clearly unsafe. There are also disturbing reports about the safety of chromium supplements suggesting they may have a damaging effect on the genetic material inside cells. Shape Up America! advises against the use of any of these compounds for weight loss or any other purpose.
Here is another quote from the Medical Journal of Austrailia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medical Journal of Austrailia
Abstract Objectives: To review the evidence for the effectiveness of popular, non-prescription weight loss supplements.
Data sources: A detailed literature search including all relevant medical and supplementary medicine databases and evidence submitted from manufacturers.
Data synthesis: The theoretical basis and rationale for the use of each substance is considered along with available research in the published literature on effectiveness and potential risks. We classified the level of evidence represented by the main research studies on each substance.
Conclusions: There is no good evidence for any weight loss benefits from most of the substances reviewed here. There is some support for mild effects of capsaicin, caffeine and fibre, but only in whole foods. In some cases (eg, chitosan), there is a plausible theoretical basis for the product, but no supporting proof of effect in humans in the absence of a calorie-controlled diet. Possible synergistic effects of different ingredients cannot be dismissed, but cannot be assessed from current data. There is an absence of good quality research on many substances, which means that advertising claims may be misleading.
So yes, while you have found studies that capsaicin does help with weight loss, my research also has shown me that it does not due to the fact that there is not suffient data from the existing studies to properly say that Capsaicin DOES in fact help with weight loss. Sure there is no harm in trying it, but it was stated saying "fact or not, put some on your food". I was just saying that there is not enough suffient data for it to be considered "Fact" at this point. However, it does appear that over the past few years, more data is being produced to support this claim, but there are a few in the medical field who are hesitant to agree with the claim. Since you brought it to my attention, I have been looking more into it and there is definitely much work being put into these studies (probably because they are in so many weight loss "magic pills"). I apologize if that seemed like an unwarrented attack or flame.

As for this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlaplant
-Throw in some healthy snacks... PB and J sandwhich, almonds, apple, orange... etc
Just to defend my point that PB&J is not a healthy snack...
REDUCTED FATPeanut Butter
Serving Size: 2 Tbsp (36g)
Calories: 190
Calories from Fat: 110
Total Fat: 12 g
---Sat Fat: 2.5 g
Total Carb: 15 g
---Sugars: 4 g
Protein: 8 g

Concord Grape Jelly
Serving Size: 1 Tbsp (20g)
Calories: 50
Calories from Fat: 0
Total Fat: 0 g
---Sat Fat: 0 g
Total Carb: 13 g
---Sugars: 10 g
Protein: 0 g

Whole Wheat Bread
Serving Size: 1 slice (28g)
Calories: 70
Calories from Fat: 10
Total Fat: 1 g
---Sat Fat: 0 g
Total Carb: 13 g
---Sugars: 2 g
Protein: 3 g

Ok.....so If you make a SMALL modest PB&J Sandwhich, with 1 Tbsp of Reduced fat Peanut Butter (half a serving), 1 Tbsp of Concord Grape Jelly, and 2 Slices of Whole Wheat bread, then this is the stats you are looking at..

PB&J Sandwhich
Serving Size: 1 Sandwhich as described above
Calories: 285
Calories from Fat: 75
Total Fat: 8 g
---Sat Fat: 2.5 g
Total Carb: 46.5 g
---Sugars: 16 g
Protein: 10 g

So even with reduced fat peanut butter, a PB&J sandwhich on whole wheat bread contains 25% of its total calories from fat. This MIGHT be good as part of a meal (or a whole meal, depending on how much you are cutting calories) but definitely not as a snack. In addition to that, 60% of this meals calories is attributed to Carbs. Even according to the post "How to Cut" posted by Dr. X, this would already be 35% of the daily carb intake recommended there...in one snack.

My advice, if you want to snack, stick to fresh fruits and vegetables. While you are just starting out, to make sure not to overwhelm yourself, stick to things you enjoy. As you get more into the routine, make the switch from some fresh fruits and vegetables that you enjoy towards fruits and vegetables such as grapefruits, pineapples, oranges, spinach, etc.

If any of this can be deemed as incorrect please let me know.....but this is the precise reason why I said to just contact me on AIM since when I get going with a point ot prove.....I can be very verbose.

Once again, sorry about any offense I have caused or confusion I might have created.
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