Thanks, Riddick.

This is for Reforming who seems like a good guy wanting to make sense of all this. And whose efforts to REFORM I applaud .

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReformingBB Just read this now. No, I didn't say wrong. Part of my thoughts were covered by Dave. If I am quoting what the man Eric said and saying "This is the most important part," then how could that possibly mean that I think he is wrong

I think what is happeing here is that TM is becoming the defintion of intermediate programming rather than a method of intermediate programming. The apple cart is rolling along before the horses.

In a nutshell being an intermediate means progressing on a basis that is no longer workout to workout but is some longer period of time. Rippetoe goes over the logic in using a week when using this volume intensity method so I won’t repeat all that. But does there exist a scheme of less than a week and trainee who can strive on it? Of course. Don’t get caught up in time frames. Instead simply recognize that a week makes sense for this type of programming and it’s just more convenient.

So let’s just say being an intermediate means progressing on a weekly basis for the purposes of this discussion. That’s it. That’s all it really is. You do something that is supposed to disrupt homeostasis, fitness increases, fatigue disapates and you are able to do more next week. There is nothing in there which points to a certain method. People need to look past “methods” if they want to understand theories. It doesn’t matter if the homeostatic disruption is actually accomplished over more than one workout or whether it is just one as in TM. If you load and recover within the week you are doing intermediate training as far as our current definition of that goes.

I don’t care about the semantics involving fitness vs. “increasing your bench” or whatever. You increase your bench that is new fitness. You increase your load on bench 5x5 sets across enough and you should have increased your maximal ability on bench. You could choose not to “display that fitness” via a max repetition attempt but the ability is still there provided fatigue is not masking it. I don’t know why this is so difficult to see.

Now the things I have said were not designed to force a new paradigm on to the TM method. I was adding a caveat based on the day to day reality of training this way versus general recommendations. Most everything in PP is designned to accomplish the fastest progress possible. What I have found is that this mentality can be as much of a curse as a blessing when you don’t have a pro guiding your every move. All I am saying is sit back and recognize that there are a whole lot of weekly fluctuations in fitness and no one can really sum them up within a few paragraphs.

Just don’t go scrambling to make major changes if you fail to achieve a PR on Friday. By all means I hope that your efforts on Monday achieve the results to display a PR on Friday but make no mistake if you miss a PR but continue to progress on Monday you will still have achieved new strength. The PR is displaying the new strength and reinforcing it but it will serve it’s purpose even if an occasional PR is missed.

What is the difference? It is the difference between slow and steady and quick progress at all cost. By all means if you are in a huge hurry to get a big bench ignore me. But for those with less experience you are just as likely to bog yourself down and fuck up as you are to help yourself by making continual changes by overemphasing Friday….which I suspected would happen.

For Reforming if going to 3x5 on Monday worked it is most likely because there was too much fatigue build up and the drop in volume enabled new fitness to be manifested. But it is very unlikely that continual progress would be maintained with this. 3x5, once recovery has caught up, is likely not enough stimulus and PR’s don’t spur new PR’s and certainly will not continually drive the progress of a Monday type workout. If that was the way it worked then we would all have a very easy job of increasing our big three.

Friday of TM can simply be thought of as a Taper. Many of us consider a good taper to be simply a drastic reduction (I’ll let the individual define drastic based on his/her experience level) with intensity remaining high. Ideally the fitness from the previous loading period would be displayed though increases in intensity which also serves to reinforce those fitness gains. But in essence it is a period that allows you to remove fatigue without losing fitness. It is there to maintain and or display “fitness”. Many will say to increase fitness but that is not really correct thinking since it makes a taper or peak a program in itself.

A ramp or peak is better of course but, IMO, the most important thing is fatigue is removed and fitness is not lost while being reinforced. This fits Rippetoe’s explanation of Friday’s workout.
Most people who put too much thinking in to this will get themselves five or six weeks of progress before they have thought themselves into a hole.

As for the aspect of Monday to Monday and Friday to Friday “linear” progress, I’ll let Rip speak for me:

“When a program like this is started, the goal is to make progress on both Monday and Friday, just as in the novice program. When all the prescribed sets and reps on Monday are accomplished, raise the weight for the next week. If a new 1RM is set Friday, next week try for a new 2RM. In essence, LINEAR progress is still being made, but the line is now drawn between Monday and Monday, and between Friday and Friday, instead of between Monday and Wednesday.” – Mark Rippetoe

Ok, so notice the Rip says if an new 1RM is made. What if one is not made? You immediately panic at your failure and start rethinking everything? No. Chances are next week will prove to be successful. Or you might want to forgo another 1RM attempt and try a 5 or 4 or something else. As I said before, I don’t feel that new intermediate trainees should be doing 1RM’s in the first place. Most are going to be able to kick ass every Friday with new 5RM’s despite anything I have said, provided their non-workout behavour is up to par.

I don't believe that everyone should be trying to achieve a linear progression on Friday via a single progression method, i.e. 1,2,3,4,5 reps. That has been said time and again and not just by me. But yes it can be thought of as Monday to Monday and Friday to Friday without taking out the relationship between Monday and Friday.

In fact I think that Pendlay likes to follow the weekly linear periodized 5x5 with ramped sets at some point by going to 5X5 sets across on Monday and 5x5 ramped sets on Friday. If your were to do that you darn sure better plan a differnet progression for the Monday to Monday and the Friday to Friday because it will no longer be linear periodized within the week. Linear periodized in itself has nothing to do with progression within a week. It is simply any type of progression that is linear in nature

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.