Eric,
I fail to see where we really disagree. It seems like you're just writing like we disagree.
Here's the only place where I see a disagreement. It's the first day of training pretty much.
YOU and SENTINEL: "Always modify the program at the beginning to take care of a few things that tend to be a problem for some people."
ME: " Basically start it as written, with less aggressive loading, unless/until modifications are necessary."
We don't need to add GHR's, shoulder pre-hab stuff, and something that works the bottom half of the bench press unless/until those things are needed. Certain situations require certain modifications, but we don't need to make those modifications unless one of those situations somehow applies.
As far as getting up on your high horse and talking down to me like I'm an idiot, it was things like these:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eric
You are insisting that everyone, for instance, if they have problems to just load slower but for god's sake keep squatting? Why? There are no other things that can be done? Squat variations that are in themselve primal movements? I can design a fantastic beginner's program working around the back squat entirely if someones doesn't want to do it or their back won't take it. And I guarantee they will be strong as hell.
The idea that you are training people but giving them all the same program. Dude, I'm sorry but you are not doing your job if that is your job.
Do you do postural assesments? Do you do any movement testing? How about a lunge test as Gray Cook advocates? Much better than a squat test. Shoulder stuff? Facepulls are the tip of the ice berg if there is scapular instabiltiy and immobility in the shoulders. Do you look at the shoulders, before you have everyone bench pressing and overhead pressing? Is there a history of impingement. If so, what grade?
I'm not trying to be an ass, but the idea of trainers running around giving out SS to everyone sounds like trainers needing to be fired. But I didn't say scrap the program. I said modify it. And if Sentinel wants to suggest an alternative at least he put actual thought and time into it rather than just saying...do this program.
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The above assumes I actually do and/or am not aware of these things. I may not be an expert with decades of experience, but don't make the automatic assumption that I'm some complete idiot who doesn't know my ass from a hole in the ground.
What assumptions do I normally make? Well, it's the internet so I assume the basics. I assume you're "healthy" unless you say otherwise. That means no medical conditions and injury status is clear. I also assume you can perform the basic lifts correctly and you're not an idiot, meaning you don't sacrifice form for weight, and you're willing to stick to a program.
If the above assumptions are correct, then yup, begin at the beginning. If not, then speak up and we'll modify. Unfortunately, most people won't admit to a problem, and only a few will admit to being an idiot.
These are big assumptions, especially the last bit, but if I don't assume something then I may as well stop posting. The internet is not the same as talking to and seeing someone in person and watching them perform. You know this.
Anyways, the way I see it, we really only disagree on the very beginning. It was an interesting discussion.
Cheers for now,
Jeff