Thread: Marv's Journal
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:25 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Well chucks are good, pretty much for average sqatting and even deadlifting. But they don't stand up to a lot of variety and they will tend to break down. And depending on your squatting style they may not be so good for that either. That's the problem with them having no re-enforcment and the sole is not extra wide with really helps with a lifting shoe.

I like Otomix a lot. They are affordable. But there's always addidas and some other standards. I used to use running shoes (kinda simple ones) and then chucks for years but recently I finally broke down and got some dedicated shoes simply because chucks are gave me the same problems as you are getting and they are no longer so cheap they can be replaced (for lifting) willy nilly which is kinda what you have to do...replace them often and even then it's not perfect. The good thing about chucks is their simplicity with the flat sole but there are some affordable lifting shoes on the market.

On the rows you're not really doing any hip extension (I don't know why you'd want to). When you see the chest coming down, the shoulders coming forward and the elbows extending so far behind the back it's pretty much always the same picture. The problem is that this kind of row if forcing people into this bad setup and they never really learn a decent row. It's basically nothing more than brute force.

You definitely do not need to be below parallel, or even parallel, to do a row. It's not even natural to do a row completely parallel, imo. That doesn't mean you want to be way up at a high angle but the concentration should be on a good technique and not on how low your torso is. And not many have the flexibility to keep a set back AND lift a heavy weight that way without using hip and leg movement or what have you.

I would recommend you use a low cable row, seated, to learn the basic mechanics, and then transfer that understanding to the barbell. I'm swimming against the stream here since the JS row has been hyped up so much on the internet rounds and you have people like Rip saying rows must be done off the floor. I could name just as many reasons to do a row from a hang as off the floor. The swcrewed up part is the bullshit message....you do it off the floor to make it harder, but then everybody uses crazy form to make it EASIER to do heavier weights. Rows are a means to an end not the end in itself.

I'd like some of these people to test whether they can do a strict row at around the same weight as their bench. After all you can't bench with a lot of body language to help. You're laying prone on a bench. Anyway off the stump and onto the info

You said you should bring your lats together but what you need to bring together is your scapula. The big problem is that in order to complete the movement your scapula are elevating. so then your shoulder joint glides forward. The scapula should be depressed and then retracting. Your shoulders should be down and the chest out somewhat like the beginning of a good deadlfit.

The best thing to do is the depress (bring down) the scapula and retract them (pinch them together) and poke the chest out at the beginning. Then while maintaining this postion allow the scapula to move forward along the ribcage with the weight of the bar but just a bit. Note that they are coming forward but not elevating. This means the shoulders stay down. Then you initiate the movement by bringing the scapulas together as hard as possible. This should create a natural path for the bar which will be somewhat below the sternum. At the top of the movment the shoulders should be back (and still locked down) and you pause to get a good pinch. Neck neutral at all times.

You elbows will not extend so far behind you in a good row as you will see with this technique. The scapula come together and the shoulders and arms come back together rather than just the shoulder joints hyperextending like the rows you're doing. Which also creates the bar coming into the sternum...

It is better to set the back and not be quite parallel than row with a rounded and loaded back. And a regular barbell row (not from the floor) has the advantage of being a great trainer for back enduarance. Especially lumbar endurance which is just what the area needs. And yes, you can row VERY powerfully and drive the bar up. It just may not be with artificially enhanced poundage. People who think you can't row powerfully without all the cheating just don't know how to row.
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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