View Single Post
 
Old 05-06-2008, 08:04 AM
EricT EricT is offline
Rank: Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,314
Default

Apparently I'm not the only one thinking along the lines I've outlined in this thread. I've been hinting around (haha) that 5x5 reps/sets isn't some magical ticket to continued strength gains.

Used to, however, I bought into the idea that 5x5 was the best way for intermediates to progress and that more "advanced" ways are needed for, well, the "advanced".

But I slowly realized how ludicrous that was. Then I started to realize that for strength, intermediates should start dipping below 5 reps sooner rather than later and that "volume" was for sure not going to get it done. It's about intensity.

Seems Eric Cressey has noticed that 5x5 has gotten to be a little bit too overemphasized as well:

http://ericcressey.blogspot.com/

This is a short blog post but he goes into some of the stuff I've been trying to say here.

I mean, seriously, with "methods" like the Texas Method you get terms like "volume/intensity"....that is an oxymoron and we all know it. The idea that there is some magical volume-intensity relationship is what gets people spinning their wheels in the quest for strength. It is decidedly bodybuilding thinking. Yes you need volume. But no there is not a magical balance that will be the 'best' for getting you stronger. Most here know that I understand these routines and methods as well or better than most. But that understanding has forced me to also understand there very real limitations.

The next time someone says "intensity is the most important thing but...." then you should recognize that they don't really believe it. They are just regurgitating things they have heard. If it is the most important then there is no "but"...especially since you know what follows the "but" which will be something about how much volume you need without which you won't have a proper 'stumulus'.

There are all sorts of parameters that can be manipulated in order to progress. Many times we lose sight of that and get stuck on JUST loading the bar or JUST adding volume. So that makes me hesitant to state my opinion on what is THE MOST IMPORTANT...

BUT it needs to be said and repeated imho: The most important thing related to strength is:

1: Intensity
1a: quality of movement

Some of the mantras that all of us repeat have lead many of us to roadblocks and frustration. There is no bigger source of confusion than this question of strength versus mass. We had to counter this ludicrous notion that there was a difference between the two. That one goal could be sought independantly of the other. But as so often happens in our zeal to counter on extreme falsehood we tend to create another extreme.

It's going to be difficult to explain what I mean by this and it may cause some to think I'm saying certain things that I don't intend to say. That's always the risk you take, though, when discussing principles rather than methods. But I'll try just to make a few simple statements as examples.

1. It is easier to gain mass once you have a strength base. The stronger you are and the more time you spend at the highest of intensities, the easier it will be to stimulate mass gains when that is a primary goal.

2. When you are a beginner strength gains will come first before mass but strength and mass for the large part are "all of a package".

3. And as a beginner (which partly follows from 2) the same movements, volume, etc that get you mass get you strength and vice-versa. I.E. you pretty much are going to get stronger and therefore bigger from whatever you do if there is progression and continued overload. But...

4. As you move past the beginner stage you need more and more intensity to get stronger. More intensity means less volume.

5. Continued mass gains are actually easier to achieve than continuous significant gains in absolute strength. Not forgetting of course that continued gains in absolute strength still make mass gains eaiser to accomplish.

6. When you are a beginner you can simply rely on you basic big compound movements to accomplish your purpose of strength and mass.

7. As you move past the beginner stage if you continue to rely on the same movements for maximal expression of both qualities you will find that one or both of those goas is comprimised. But you've been told things like "squats are the greatest mass building exercise"....

8. But what you don't realize is getting bigger by doing squats is easier than continuing to get stronger at squats. You also don't realize that the stronger you get at things like squats and deadlifts the easier it will be to, for instance, grow big legs, with other movements to support your goal of mass. If you continue getting stronger for as long as possible you will continue getting bigger longer. If not, your mass gains will stop UNTIL you add significant strength (unless you do "something else"). The more advanced you get the truer this becomes.

9. There are lots of strength qualities that contribute to your gaol of gaining absolute strength, but, as stated above, imo the most important factors are intensity and quality of movement.

10. You can accumulate volume in all sorts of ways as long as you manage all the stressors involve. Or in other words plan for recovery. But there are relatively few ways to gain absolute strength and the options become fewer as you advance.

11. Fullbodies are probably best for beginners but they are not the "best" for everyone. That is not to say that bodypart splits are the way to go!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Last edited by EricT; 05-06-2008 at 09:12 AM.
Reply With Quote