Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
Sounds good on paper but there is always a line between favorable adapatation and unfavorable. Of course there are going to be hard fought reps. And I agree that a hard rep can be very very valuable. But there is a difference between a hard fought rep and a pile of shit where form breaks down and you risk injury. You train to be ABLE to lift heavier things. If you always traing as if you are in a competition....you will not be having many actual competitions.
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Let me back track a bit here. I'm not saying that EVERY rep has to be a gut buster, but I do strongly believe that you have to expect them from time to time.
Let me frame this by saying I am a competing amateur strongman. Not the worlds strongest man, and fortunately not the weakest strongman
In this frame of reference I deal with a couple different things.
1) lifts that require maximum effort, regardless of form, a good lift is a good lift. There are no red and white lights.
2) lifts that require maximum reps in a set time. Again, as someone may have already touched on here, more reps generally equals crap form. But here I am in a sport that basically requires good decision making about jsut how sloppy form can get before it is too much risk. Honestly, I have found personally that when I get to that "too much" point that the weight just isn't going anywhere. If I can pull 500 and the next jump is 550 (this is typical in deadlift type events) 550 just won't budge. It won't break the ground it won't anything. No real risk of injury there. Same thing with something like a log press. As I get tired, or as the weight gets to be too much, it simply won't leave my shoulders... or not enough to matter
That all being said, I test where I am about once a month in each crucial area. It is important to know where the edge is in order to walk it. While this might be an unnecessary risk for someone like a bodybuilder...and I use the term loosely, I have found that while I'm always nursing a little ache here and a little twinge there, that I'm generally pretty healthy. I did NOT experience this while powerlifting or bodybuilding. I could get into why I think that was, or is... but maybe later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
And it is very important to point out that the way your body adpapts to one or two very hard reps with so so form does not compare to a volume oriented session where you have many reps done with bad form. If most of your "practice" is bad your body is not going to magically adpapt to make it "good" as you progress. Bad practice makes imperfection. With imperfection comes ineficiencies which over time add up to imbalances which then become injuries...etc, so on.
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Again, I would never suggest ten or twenty rep sets with miserable form. However, if the last rep is a bit of a wobbler... so be it. I wouldn't go beating myself up over it.
I am also against inneficiency and weak points. However, I know first hand that when someone drops a big stone at your feet and tells you to pick it up, your body plays to its strengths and "form" is kind of intuitive at that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
The only reason you can have an attitude about injuries not mattering so much is because they haven't cost you enough yet. I would think. BUT I do understand the spirit of what your are saying. It's just that I've learned that the mantra "hard work" can be taken the wrong way and turned into "train stupid". If it were easy, everyone would do it though |
Oh, I've had several injuries that have taken a good year or so to bounce back from... but I do bounce back. I take necessary precautions, I have been lifting for a good 16+ years, so I'm pretty comfortable with my own limitations, and I have a pretty keen sense of when I'm about to do something stupid... even if I ignore my gut feeling and follow thorugh on it anyway
Nobody should train stupid. But gyms full of people never testing their limits are not going to really be gyms full of people making any progress. There has to be a fine balance. I have my testing days, and then I have form/speed/repetition days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
I should also point out that there is not intensity cycling in this program and even the lower intensity volume work is still pretty high and definitely in keeping with the "strength training" range. This aint no bodybuilder oriented 60 to 70 percent thing, after all.
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I will concur that anything in the 70-80% range is excellent for building strength... but at some point you have to be working with a higher 80% than the week before. The only way you get there is by limit testing of some sort. In limit testing you are going to get some slop in form.
Sorry to hijack your journal, Anuj. And sorry to come off as some meat headed "train through the pain" idiot. There is a lot more consideration given to my injuries than all of that.