ZMA seems to be highly effective for some and do diddly squat for others. It does nothing for me sleep wise. The effect is often reported to "wear off" over time btw.

Valerian is good. The thing you have to know about valerian is that it's not a good PRN herb. You need to take it in adequate amounts over time. Most people take a big dose and maybe feel a small effect but get no real help so they give up on it.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.