Ross, is right. I was done answering Brad after the first post since I answered his question in the way that first came to mind. After that I was addressing you. The reason I addressed you is that you, as Anuj said, oversimplified things with your response.

The excuse about the "average person" not wanting to know about or care about the importance of the glenohumeral joint (there are three other important joints to consider as well) is condescending in itself. You seem to be projecting your own practices on to me. And your assumptions about what Brad would or would not understand IS condescending to him as I guarantee he understood everything I said. He may not agree with it but he understood it.

The reason I made the smart alleck remark was simply because I was afraid that a pat answer like "there is no chest exercise" might sound like that if I didn't come back and qualify if a little bit. And I did. I said that there are muscles that work the chest but I don't think there are chest exercises.

Being reasonable one can take that to be a difference in how we classify exercises. But I made that answer as short and sweet as possible without going into the classification thing in detail because I did not want to be verbose, which you have forced me to be now!

Just stick it on back day is actually not the kind of answer people expect to hear when coming to this forum. The shoulder is a big problem for weightlifters. You've got some serious individuals coming on here and they are aware of that. This isn't one of those 'men's issues' forums for weekend warriors to help weekend warriors. People know how important and fragile the shoulder complex is and if the ACSM doesn't agree with that you can have them. Especially if they teach trainers to isolate the chest and other such nonsense.

But again, and I don't know why we have to keep repeating it, you brought up the kinesiology. Not me. I have learned that 'experts' do not like to be caught with their pants down though so you are not the first person to think I'm an asshole. You brought up chest expansion and used fancy terminology. You brought up horizontal adduction. And now suddenly It's me who is the know it all bully.

I forgot, btw, how sometimes people do pullovers with bent arm versus straight arm thinking it changes the targeted muscles, like Anuj brought up. The straight arm being for "back" and the bent arm being for chest. I think. Maybe it's the other way around?

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.