^^ dude, you need to get over that shit ... cheating? cheating who? cheating what? i dont get it.

Absolutely agree. Spammers suck ass :arg:

I agree.

hmmmm.......Im just a little disappointed, i thought bodybuilding was a sport that took extreme dedication, and focus, where hard work paid off.....but i wont say anything else on the subject, to each is own.

That's hrdgain's most recent post in the Hatin Thread. And I totally agree. The biggest user I know is the most "dedicated, focused, hard working" bodybuilder that I know, to address your comment. It looks like you have the conception that if you go on a cycle, you can slack off, you don't have to work hard or be strict with your diet, and you grow lots of muscle doing basically nothing. I don't understand...I think you're full of misconceptions like most other people.

I don't agree that there is any corrolation between taking an aspirin, or protein and taking aas..I think that is a weak analogy, sorry hrdgain.

I don't think it's 'cheating' or anything else, mind you. Really I could care less what other people do. But that's not a realistic analogy and it's not fair to compare sups with aas. In fact it's that kind of thing that leads to the media treatment of things like creatine being compared to aas. We get enough flack without this kind of unfair comparison.

Let's be clear...none of these things like protein, creatine, etc. will do what gear will do. Supps may increase your work capacity, they may speed up recovery, etc...all this in the short term. But they WILL not speed up anything past your natural set limit and they will NEVER take you past you genetic limit in the longterm.

I think this is all getting a little defensive. I can understand both sides of the coin. Food and supps don't really allow you to progress and gain using means that you normally would not use. AAS does. Yes, you work hard...that's the point...if you use enough you can work harder and recover from more. Nothing else allows you to do that. From that standpoint it's easier. I can understand how people feel about it. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

This is hard hard work and people get frustrated sometimes. They change their entire lives sometimes for very little result. But there is no reward in judgmentalness. It doesn't make you a better or more successful person to judge the pharmaceutical choices of others.

I think "to each is own" is about as good as it's going to get. Some people use, some people don't. Stick to your own ideals and convictions and don't concern yourself with other people.

Just to point out something....I think most on this board are natural. Certainly the majority of regulars are. I know that people like to point out that aas is a part of bodybuilding but I think it is also important to accept that it is not really that large a part of this particular community as compared to others. You are going to get viewpoints, therefore, against aas for whatever reason and since that majority doesn't routinely "shout down" the gear users on this board it is only fair that the other side doesn't "shout down" them. Both sides can tend to be passionate in their views.

I think it would be best to keep anti aas statements out of the anabolic section though. General statements I mean...not specific advise like "your are too young" or whatever.

OK, I'm sorry. Everybody has there own right to do what they want to, and its really not my business. So if thats what you, or anyone else prefers to do....good luck, and i hope it pays off!!!

It may be a bit weak eric, but the point I was trying to make is, that any substance that pushes your body past the point that it can "naturally" achieve, is very similar. If your sick and have a 109 temp, and asprin brings it back down to 100, isnt that manipulating your body via drugs, to do things it normally couldnt do on its own? Sure its not manipulating nitrogen retention, and steroids rarely save lives ... unless of course your a cancer patient, aids patient, or me (yes aas has saved my ass before).

I guess I'll I'm trying to say is, judge not, you have no idea what the person you see as a "cheater" steroid user has going on, or what thier intentions are, or what they have been through.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE IN LIFE ... PERIOD!

Yes, but if you take an aspirin then there is something "wrong" that your are trying to make right. Unless you have a low test count there is nothing broken your are trying to fix when using aas. I'm not saying it's cheating or anything else...I'm saying it's an unfair comparison. You spike a high enough fever you can die...

Here is my thing...if your believe in your heart that steroids are a choice that people can make and they shouldn't be judged for that then let that be the case. There is no point in comparing apples to oranges and trying to paint aas as something it is not. That, in my mind, is simply a defensive justification. There is nothing similar about asprin, protein, and aas.

It is what it is. Why pretend otherwise? Just because I take a headache pill or a fever reducer once in a while I'm not going to say, "hey, I may as well take steroids. In for a penny in for a pound :biglaugh:"

But yes, steroids save lives all the time. Especially corticosteroids.

I think my whole point, though, was that both sides tend to be a little loud and turn it into a moral issue. It's pointless.

I had someone tell me I was cheating for using whey protein the other week because I wasn't getting all of my protein from food. :lame: I thought it was lame that he said that, but in his opinion protein equated AAS. I suppose it's one of those perception/education things...