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hrdgain81 01-15-2008 12:34 PM

The PCT Thread
there doesnt seem to be much info on PCTs here, so I thought I'd get a discussion started about the topic. I'll start with my current cycle and what I'm planning for pct.

Cycle 6-8 weeks Transdermal 4AD and EpiMax (Havoc/Epistane clone).

PCT will consist of:

Nolvadex @ 40/30/20/10
Activate Extreme @ 6 caps ed
Trib (whatever is cheap)

This is pretty much my standard pct protocol, but my source for Nolva no longer carries it. So I'm looking for other options for the future. If anyone has any info on AI's please post up, I'm still a little confused as to whats steroidal and what is not, and what the differeing effects are.

I also want to point out, that if your injecting, your pct could look totally different then this. Some people like clomid, or Letro (still unsure about its use for pct) so if anyone wants to join in please do.

mac 01-15-2008 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by hrdgain81 (Post 46495)
there doesnt seem to be much info on PCTs here, so I thought I'd get a discussion started about the topic.

Just what I was thinking, I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions on this also

Ross86 01-22-2008 06:40 PM

What PCT would you recommend for a Pheraplex/Havoc stack? My buddy got some P-Plex and Epimax which are clones of the two. I know you said you're doing the Epimax, hrdgain. Unfortunately my buddy had a friend tell him to just take Life Support and that he would be fine. From what little I know, it seems like that is probably a little bare. Any info about what he should supplement with pre-cycle and how he should protect himself during the cycle and post cycle would be appreciated. Also, any advice on dosage and the length of the cycle...he is 10 lbs heavier than me, so around 175lbs.

hrdgain81 01-23-2008 06:55 AM

From the info I've seen about havoc, it has a relatively low suppression rate, but I dont know much about Phera. I've seen a few people who swear that using an AI like ATD or 6OXO is sufficient for pct for havoc alone. However, IMO its always safe to do a full pct for every cycle you use. For me, that means using a serm like Nolva or Clomid, and running an AI inverse to it.

I just had a look at life support, and it is definately not sufficient for pct by itself. I would use it for a week prior to the cycle, through the cycle, and through pct though, everything in there is good for you. It has liver detoxifiers, RYR for lipids, and a ton of other goodies.

As for length, if its his first time I would suggest 4 weeks, starting with 20mg of havoc, and moving up to 30mg for the rest. Obviously if sides appear and they are serious, drop the dose, or discontinue, but make sure he has his pct on hand incase something happens. I will need to check into phera more closely to find out what is good stacking dosage.

Ross86 01-23-2008 10:01 AM

I did some research today and I think it's probably not a good idea to stack two methyls. But I saw where some people ran a cycle of one and transitioned straight into a cycle of the other. Now I wonder which would be best to start with. This shit is complicated.

hrdgain81 01-23-2008 10:24 AM

To be honest, methyls get a bad rap, I know they are liver toxic, but to what degree is debatable. I believe havoc/epi is not as toxic as others, so it could still be stackable. And you could always look at running Phera straight through, and pulse the havoc or something. there are a lot of options.

Ross86 01-23-2008 10:47 AM

I'm overwhelmed and I'm not even taking the stuff. I will recommend that he just try one at a time. I think that is the simplest thing to do...he can save one for another cycle if he'll actually do it. I found some PCT info for each, but not together. It's his first cycle anyway, so I don't think he would even need to stack the the two to see results.

hrdgain81 01-23-2008 11:09 AM

You are correct, he will see very good gains from either one seperately. As far as pct goes, encourage him to get some nolva (tamox) or clomid, it will save his nuts. I like nolva personally, and I like to dose like this 40/30/20/10 (mg) per day, at night before bed. just to clarify, thats 40mg for one week, 30 for one week ect.

Ross86 01-23-2008 11:23 AM

I'll definitely do that. I've been reading a lot about AIs and Anti-Cortisols. What are your thoughts? Is it necessary with something like Epistane? Also, do you do some kind of support while on the cycle?

hrdgain81 01-23-2008 01:28 PM

Well epistane is suppose to have mild AI properties itself, thats why I stacked it with 4ad (converts to test). So I'm all set on that front, as far as cortisol goes, I have had mixed experience with that. I've tried lean extreme from designer suppliments, and my joints ached on it, and I saw no fatloss at all. So that lead me to believe either that shit was too strong, or I really didnt have a problem with cortisol. Its freakin expensive too, I tend to leave that out now because of those issues.

Now for pct, I do run an AI, usually ATD, but I try to keep it minimal. Again, it gives me some joint issues at higher doses, some people use it inverse to the serm, so week one would be one cap, week two 2 caps, week 3 three caps, while the serm is going down in dosage like I posted before 40/30/20/10.

Now for me, using Act Ex is a good alternative. It has a mild AI in it, and it also boosts free test, and I believe it has RR in it, so it helps your cns adapt to stress.

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