Bodybuilding.net - Bodybuilding Forum

Originally Posted by Boxing Raven

You've been here for a month, and you've only posted 5 times? Some f'n saviour you turned out to be!! Where are all our new, more knowledgable members? We really need your yahoo bodybuilding group to save us! Personally, I've been eating 5 grams of protein a day, with 4500 grams of carbohydrates and about another 2500 grams of fat (obviously I'm on a cutting cycle). As far as supplements, I take Devils Claw and Palmetto Root combined with 10 grams of Red Ginseng daily!!! My work out consists of a strict, every odd week work out, where I grab my 20 lbs dumbells and do nothing but arm curls. Please...Yahoo Bodybuilding Svengali....SAVE ME!!!

Originally Posted by Ironaddict

Agreed throughout bodybuilding:
1.His basic premise that most bodybuilders overtrain is CORRECT!
2.His basic premise that doing less will result in better gains for MOST people is CORRECT!
3.The basic principles of muscle stressors and adaptation is CORRECT!
4.His ideas about exercise selection and execution are well thought out.
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Disagree
5.The routines given work GREAT for many people.......for a short time, and then quit working......no explanation is ever given how to get past this.
6.His diet recommendations are past the point of belief and just DON’T work.
7.His statement that we all as humans share the same physiology and thus all require the same loading protocol is just the lamest thing I can imagine. And the sad thing is a very long time ago, I read it and believed it. Pretty stupid.

There is nothing wrong with very low volume training providing you respond to it, but the way Mike presented it, just gets one started down the path and then leaves them stranded. I knew alot of experienced trainees try this and fail.

Mentzer's HD2 template basically had quirky frequency setups in his routine. For legs and back, he would have you work out once every 12 days. But the upper torso would be worked twice over a 8 day period, and then given a 8 day layoff.

What this usually meant was that both the back and legs were significantly deconditioned session to session. This, in addition to working with new PRs for legs and back, would guarantee significant microtrauma during each session. And because we're talking about a very low volume one-shot, it's not likely the muscle's resistance to future bouts would have been adequately developed anyway. Thus, each growth response would have been very significant and possibly sustained longer than the 36-48 hour window.

It should also be noted that cardio was strongly frowned upon with his program. The HIT conventional wisdom at the time was that cardio ate up gains, not only glycogen storage. Here, this was somewhat true. Due to HD (and 3-way split routines were designed in general) very, very strong reliance upon a significantly deconditioned state to elicit growth, any amount of serious physical activity would significantly hurt potential gains. Looking back, it's probably the rise of the MWF split in the 90s that begun really demonizing cardio as this mass-eater. (Metzner) We all know that is bullshit because all you need to do is to take in more calories than you expand doing cardio to continue to grow.

The other thing is, general arm and upper torso gains, strength or sizewise, were not that great with HD2. People usually saw great gains in the back and leg work, but the arms were the first to taper a bit. In fact, I think the static contractions were introduced mostly to bump up arm development. (Though to his credit, Mentzer recommending hitching the stretch reflex in his movements too.) And again, the conventional wisdom was that, well, arms are a smaller bodypart and need more time to grow. And some people later on reasoned that arms didn't grow that much because the frequency was higher-than-optimal in his given template. People noticed that it was harder to continuously increase their bench press on HD2 whereas the legs and backs flew right by.

The problem was two-fold in his arm exercises. He chose peak contraction-style exercises, movements like lateral raises and tricep pushdown, which can induce a lot of stress (thus slowing down strength gains), but is often no better if not inferior to the bench press and other movements in producing microtruama.