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or you could just have somebody randomly walk up to you and smack the shit out of you. and instead of hititng them back immediatly run to the bar and use all that built up energy to get a a good lift

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I wish there was an entity that represented the term "injury" if it was, i would find it and beat the living shit out of it!!!!!

yes......i just type and press enter, i dont proofread i did enough of that in college. you know what i meant when i typed it anyway

Actually, a good hard slap on the back does get the adrenaline pumping. I know guys that do that for big lifts. I've seen face slapping and head butting walls... pretty much anything that induces a good bit of pain. I would steer clear of groin kicks... not much weight gets lifted when you are doubled over trying not to puke

I will throw in my two cents on the grip issue as well. I think we have covered this pretty well all over the place, but here we go:

I'm not totally convinced that over/under puts you at more risk than otherwise. I suppose there is some tendency to try to flex the elbow, but I would say you see that more in people that simply never practice over/under. Truthfully, most people simply can't approach a true 1RM over/over without hook gripping. You may feel like you can't pull more, but that is more about proprioceptive feedback from a failing grip than your true capacity for force output.

I have also heard a lot of talk about "windmilling" on a lift, and I've never encountered that either.

Anyway, the biggest deadlifts in the world are made using a mixed grip. If you have never had the pleasure of seeing Benedict Magnusson (Benny) lift, this absolutely sends shivers up my spine watching this guy get psyched.

Or Andy Bolton if you like the "down to business" approach...

Either way, you have to train like this to get used to it. If you don't train mixed grip you are as likely to injure yourself using it as you might be to injure yourself benching one way, then switching up your grip ONLY when you max. I, myself, mix grip anything over about 300lbs. Can I hold more than that over/over? Sure... without a problem, but not having to worry over my grip is something I prefer when working heavy. I always mix the same direction too, I don't try to flip flop because I am not conditioned for that.

^^^ You crazy guy. I agree with you on most of that. I go over/over for as long as I can which covers the first few lifts of a heavy DL workout, then I alternate hands every two lifts. That's just me though. My workout buddy can hold onto more weight than he can DL with a double pronated grip which is crazy to me. To prove a point, he deadlifted 345 and then held onto it for 35 seconds before getting bored and letting go...and he can't DL much more than that. I think the key thing is what you mentioned...go as heavy as you can while being worry-free. Of course if you always switch your grip at some arbitrary number, then you won't train your grip as well as you could/should.

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that first dude reminded me of the dragon at the end of dragon warrior on NES. amazing

I don't think anyone is saying only switch up your grip when you max. Who said that? Who said anyting about doing 1RM's (pr's or not) with over/over? I really feel no need to get in yet another post on this, lol, except I do feel the need to make clear what I (and IK) am saying and not saying. It seems like everytime I or anyone else says use over/over until you need to switch, someone comes along and puts words in our mouths, turing it into "only use over/under when you max". Couldn't be further from the truth.

I have NEVER, EVER not lifted a weight because of over/over. I would be using over/under. There is not sacrifice. If I didn't do it this way, though, there would be many occasions where I failed USING over/under. Becasue I DO have to work to keep my grip up with my dead weights. And I don't want to have to resort to a hook grip. Yes, I have used straps when needed, as well.

With deadlift dedicated training you can run into plenty of circumstances where your grip will be failing and you will be switching to over/under and therefore getting plenty of practice using over/under. Rack pulls for instance especially when rack pulls may mean something in the 6 rep range depending on your training needs and style.

Snatch grip deads, although ligher can challenge the grip since more of the pressure tends to be diverted to the weaker fingers.

Say you are are doing some high rep romanians. This may not be something you ALWAYS do in your training and your purpose, perhaps, may be to train lower back endurance, etc. I'll let the reader define "high reps" for himself . So while you may be able to hold onto very heavy weights for a couple weights with over/over this doesn't mean you will have the endurance for this...thus another occasion where you may find yourself switching to over/under.

Also maximal training for one person is not necessarily the same for another. In my regular maximal deadlift training I'm having lots of occasion to be switching to and stayting proficient with over/under when I am doing "near maximal" or what some referr to as "circa-maximal" training. Which may be lots of singles at above 90% or doubles or triples. I'm not just talking about using over/under when you peak and do a 1RM..going for a PR or what have you.

For instance when doing singles I am working up to my best single FOR THAT DAY. That may or may not be a pr. Then I am accumulating single to hit a certain number depending where I am at in my plan. There is going to be plenty of occasion where I am using over/under for heavy lifts on those occasions.

These are just examples, there are many more. For myself I have always trained over/over until I NEED to switch, whenever that may be, and I feel completely comfortable with either way of gripping.

Flexing the elbows during deadlifting is a habit people often have PERIOD. Whatever the grip. I can see the logic, however, that if the bicep is put into a more favorable postion to exert pull, a greater potential for injury might exist. I don't know if that is true and I've never injured my arms at all deadlfifting but that doesn't mean anything. Certainly if you tend to flex at the elbows during deads, STOP! It's a very bad habit.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

I wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth, I've SEEN people take this approach. I've also seen people warm up conventional and then make a max attempt sumo, or warm up bench narrow and then make a max attempt very wide. All of those practices strike me as high on the stupid-o-meter. And none of them have ever been uttered by Eric or IK (feel better about my disclaimer? )

I would say that switching to mixed grip isn't undertraining your grip on deads. If you can still hold onto the weight, then you are still gripping it. Just using some physics to your advantage is all. But no, I wouldn't say that will make your grip weak. I have also said that if you are worried about your grip, you need to train it by itself. Deadlifting is not a sufficient method of training your grip. That is not to say someone might not have an amazing talent for gripping and require no additional training.

I would say too that flexing at the elbow during a deadlift is a bad habit that makes you more likely to experience injury, much like rounding of the lower back during a squat. It might not happen every time, and we could probably find some high school kid who can squat 600lbs with good depth and a horribly rounded back who has never experienced an injury. However, I think that we can agree that weight aside it is a bad practice.

The other side of the injury game is that *gasp* steroids cause a lot of imbalances (muscle force and size accumulating faster than tendon/ligament capacity) and that congenital factors play heavily into how/when you will get hurt. So when we see the bodybuilder who gets hurt doing a certain kind of row with more weight than most people could handle... are we REALLY going to call that lift "dangerous?" Likewise, when we see a world class powerlifter break tibia squatting, are we going to blame that on squats? Do squats cause broken bones? No, that was a congenital issue (or perhaps ignored traumatic issue) that has come to a head. When I experienced my pec tear it wasn't that I was benching wrong. In fact, I had been benching for a decade at that point. Then, one day... snap, and that was it. No steroids, just a flaw in my body that had simply had enough. Heavy weights have a funny way of making it obvious where the weak point in the chain is. Biceps, backs, knees, etc.

Hence, my basic philosophy is that you run a risk simply touching a weight. That you have to make good decisions and become familiar with your body, in regards to when and where a little slop in your form isn't bad or when it is BAD. Otherwise it is wasted energy to try and train to avoid injury. Trying to train to avoid injury is a little like driving 20 mph under the speed limit and expecting that to be the factor that saves your life. It wastes time and it is the crap that you can't control that will bite you in the butt!

on the tips and tricks jonny, i honestly think there are none. i think just wanting to do do it is all the tips and tricks you need.

i mean everybody else has their own way of doing things. but i always find that motivation is the best way to get done what you want to accomplish. you can smack yourself, run into walls, jump out the window or whatever. but if you dont want to do it, you wont.

Good point, M. On the way to the gym-haven't been using the music box-I listen to tunes that get me going. I go in all pumped.

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