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I generally go around 10pm so I was just wonder. I have been eating cans of tuna and sometimes a few chicken breats before I go to bed. I am going to have to invest in some low carb whey. Right now I got this bulk protein with like 170 grams of carbs per serviing. I usually take a scoop before school and one after (Still a total of 85 grams.)

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from whati have researched(this is just my opinion tho) lean beef isone of the slowest digesting protiens , that sould get u threw the night. rathe than a shake.

Carbs are also burnt for energy and are more protein sparing. Every carb you take in isn't going to be stored as fat if it doesn't represent surplus energy. Sure you can get into all sorts of nit picking scientific scenarios but it definitely to me comes down to whether it makes you fat or not.

I'm not really disagreeing with anyone just playing devils advocate....no one is going to be able to give you actual scientific data that says carb storage increases after a certain hour. Because it doesn't exist. Everything else is talking about insulin. But since the insulin index of whey or casein is pretty darn significant and definitely comparable to brown rice or oatmeal...guess what...better not do whey either. If you have surplus calories your body can store them whether they are carbs or not.

Here is why I think people lose weight when they do a carb cuttoff in the general public: because the things that people eat after 8 pm or so while they're vegging in front of the TV are the very things that are cutting down significantly their consumption of empty calories..potato chips and shit like that. How that realted of bb'rs who tend to be more concious of that is anybody's guess.

The only thing that I could possibly point to is if you are not training late insulin sensitivity (in muscles) "tends" to be lower at night. So that would point to staying away from high insulin foods at night which would mean more things than just carbs but would not rule out low GI carbs with low insulin indexes. And we are only talking a slight reduction in insulin sensitivity and it is by no means universal for everyone becasue overall diet and traing practices affect it. So it gets very complicated.

I agree though I don't see any big need for slow carbs or otherwise if you're not working out late. But I don't think that anyone can tell you "that's going to make you fat" and have any real nutrition science on their side.

But if anyone wants to look around for studies or anything that prove that carbohydrate storage increases after a certain time of night...be my guest and happy searching cuz I'd love to see it.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Exactly what I was posting about. I presumed everyone was talking about morning/afternoon workouts, and nighttime nutrition. Whether there's studies done or not, you have to look at "black and white" results across the boards. What do most people have success with the most? Trainers such as Dante and IA tote the cuttoffs. I don't know about any others. Best way to know for certain is to give it a try for a month and see how your body responds.

I think the only "scientifically backed" theory is obviously keeping your carb intake on the low side of the GI (55 at most). Insulin spikes any time other than postworkout IME won't help your cause. And I'm speaking from experience LOL..

Of course, if you're working out in the evening you need postworkout carbs! No, wait a minute... Just take a few scoops of protein and 3 cups of broccoli!

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If someone makes scientific statements, Dante or whoever, about insulin spikes, fat storgage at night, and all that, then they need to be able to back that up. If it's about "experience" that is great and I respect that. But you can't have it both ways

That was my point about insulin spikes. You're not avoiding them just because you have a carb cuttoff. There are a number of nutrition PHD's who also successfully train competitive bb'rs who will tell you that...you are getting insulin spkes a lot more than you think. It's more likely more about energy in and out.

People can go on and on about curing insuline resistance but there is on obvious fact. The biggest casue of insulin resistance is obesity. Just losing fat will reduce insulin resistance.

To me just because online trainers put people on successful cutting diets doesn't mean that the specific dietary myths they cling to are correct. People have success DESPITE their clinging to outdated myths. But again, if we are going to talk about insulin spikes, which everyone is obsessed with, that is a SCIENTIFIC statement and it should be backed up. If not we are talking about observational opinion. I'd rather see one or the other. But like I said I don't really think it's a big issue.

A lot of people tout cutoffs but not a lot of well known nutrition AND training guys. Nutrition IS a science but I certainly respect experience. But I doubt very much that a guy on a calorie deficit, eating lots of protein is going to see his fat stores shoot throught the roof because he eats some brown rice before bed. I agree that everything cannot and need not be backed by science. But for all the things we are concerend with, I think that nutrition is the area where we will most benefit from science.

But let me be clear to anyone who doesn't know me. I am just talking about the science I have seen about these things and the opinions of some "experts" I trust. When it comes to cutting don't take anything I say as coming from experience. It's just information is all.

That's my only point for naming names. Most people when they see x amount of people losing weight with the same method, they're going to do it!

Eric, I think you'd be a good GOOD fit over at mindandmuscle.net. Avant labs I believe. They are ALL about studies, especially nutrition or whatever. You should take a look because they probably have what you're looking for.

You know that is not what I am about. I know you meant it in a good way but quite frankly I can't stand the place.

You made scientific statements and I responded to those specific statements is all. The last thing I would want to do is go though pages and pages of theoretic minutia. I simply disagree about the whole "no carbs after 8pm" based on what I've read but as I always say I'm natrually slim

I mean we've been though this before about science and whatnot and I still don't understand whether you think that everything posted in regards to nutrition should be based on the prevailing opinions at IM or IA. I'm just posting info clear and simple. I've posted lots of it. People can do with it what they see fit but I am NOT a "lab type" Most of the time I don't speak about cutting at all except in very general items.

^^ No offense intended. I thought that was your bag LOL I wasn't saying you need to go over there and find the "proof of life", just that it had a lot of material you seem to enjoy reading!

P.S. I don't consider either of their words the "final say". That's not what I said... Regardless of what some people think, when I work with a trainer, in this case IA, I'm NOT forcing anything he says as the "end all" of anything. Right or wrong, if they've had success with thousands of people over the years doing that, I'll reference that fact. Is it right? I have no idea!

Oh, I know! I edited my post real quick because I know you meant that, lol.

I don't have a lot of experience with cutting so as I say take what I say with a grain of salt. I DO however have a lot of experience with nutrition, lol . And you know I don't like to get all my info from one or two big internet gurus.

Oh, defintely not. As I made clear I'm not doubting the observations. I was rebutting the "science" only. I'm remembering the pick the protein thread Really I am actually speaking against some of the scientific minutia about insulin and all that simply because it's not based on anything substansive. So if you post seemingly "scientific" statements from one of those guys I might just rebut it is all. But if you said "experience of these guys suggest" well there is nothing to rebut really.

BTW, I name names too. My names are just different ones is all. But I don't put too much stock in the sciency guys who don't actually work with clients. But there are some very good guys out there who walk the walk.

If you tell me "do this because we've found it to work" then I'm in.

If you tell me do this based on this science and the science is not really there I'm out.

I think we are on the same page?

P.S. I can afford to enjoy reading about this stuff since it's of no practical concern to me so again it's just "data".