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As I said there are 17 known allergens added to milk - I did not refer to anything occuring naturally in milk.

My experience with this first started one day at a conference I was attending - I had brought sandwiches and a carton of milk for lunch. One of the other attendees turned around and said you are not going to drink that are you? I am a dairy farmer and I will not touch commercial milk - he then went into a lengthy explaination of how they process the milk and why it is bad.

This includes the allergens added to the milk and that the proces also breaks apart the fat chains so your body does not process milk fat correctly. Again he went into great detail on this. Considering the location of the conference I have no doubt that he was a dairy farmer and his knowledge was very comprehensive.

The milk powder was rejected by China, not infant formula - milk powder.

Also America uses hormones in the milk cattle that many other countries do not use, in fact in many countries the practise is outlawed.

If you think everything the FDA approves is OK then maybe you should read a little more.

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Do you really think I am that naive? Please let's not have this degenerate into an attack on America. Did you see the beginning of my comment about American farming practices. I have done more reading on these subjects than you can imagine. I can not base many things on heresay from a conference although I am not doubting whether what you said is true or not.

I read the article. They rejected a shipment do the nitrite levels. What I was referring to was the general attack on the milk product due to reactions from infants. I never mentioned formula except to say that, gulp, in America we don't use it as one. I try to get my information from primary sources, not internet news articles. "Fatal contamination cases" is not a lot to go on.

I'm not going to get into a debate defending American food. And certainly not the FDA. Give me a list of these 17 known allergens and will be getting somewhere .

The part about the fat you mentioned is homogenization. Fresh milk has large globules of fat in the skim milk. In non-homogenized milk the "cream" rises to the top. The purpose of homogenization is to suspend the mixture and stabilize it. I actually by non-homogenized milk from the farmers market near my home.

However what the homogenization does is to break the fat globules into much smaller pieces. The surface area is increased and the the native membrane is lost allowing protein to be absorbed. As far as I know the fatty chains are not altered in the way you described and I have seen no reliable information about it's effects of fat digestion in the human body. I'm not saying it's not out there, just that it's heresay until I see some scholarly sources.

Truthfully I don't care if people drink milk. Why shoud I? But as I said at the beginning of the post you may as well attack all of America's farming practices. Well you went ahead and attacked the beef so there it is. Unfortunately for those of us living in America the choice is either buying organic meats which many cannot afford or choosing other meats which have their own problems.

Our food has it's problems but it probably won't do any good to come on these boards and attack American foods and the FDA or to hold the "enlightened nature" of yours or other countries over our heads.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

I did not attack America, so I do not know where your reference to that comes from.

But your info on the homogenisation is correct. Unfortunately I do not have access to homogenised and unhomogenised milk where I live so I cannot conduct my own studies upon my own body now that I eat a very clean diet.

Though this and the allergens would explain why people get puffy on milk.

Personally I find if I drink milk it clogs up my sinuses.

For me at the moment I'll take heresay from trusted sources, if I listened to the scholars I would still be eating 100grams of protein a day

I meant no offence in my posts, please don't take it that way.

Bro I didn't take offense. I just don't want you to assume I was coming at this from some naive standpoint since it's an unfair and unproductive assumption. I happen to be a geek who spends a lot of time researching stuff like this...even stuff I could care less about .

I would think as far as milk problems that simple lactose intolerance would be a more obvious contribution. Since in all actuallity there are more people are a little intolerant or very intolerant than there are not.

As for my other arguments I am talking about what is very much known as opposed to pure speculation. It is KNOWN that the protein in milk cause (sometimes severe) allergic reactions in some people. That's concrete. The rest is unsubstantiated.

BTW, most scholars readily except these days that bodybuilder's and stength athletes need more protein. They just don't agree as to how much more.