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I've been doing some research on these two, as well as the PWO. I've found that they come in supplements, but haven't been able to find what kind of foods they are in. Right now my PWO (bulking..at least until my college gym membership goes away in 3 weeks) is going to consist of 1 scoop whey protein, 1 can of tuna, 1 apple, and 1/2c oats. This will make for roughly 60g protein, 55g carbs, 5g fat.

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We can rebuild him...

you do NOT want oats PWO. They are too slow digesting, which also affects the digestion of protein. You want fast digesting (high GI) carbs, such as that of malto/dex. Before i got malto/dex i just drank some grape juice along with my protein. Just buy some malto/dex from www.bulknutrition.com, i think it will be under $15.

Also, save the tuna for your PPWO.

I've read that you should stay away from juice, as it is high in fructose which doesn't spike insulin as well. That instead, it is best to stick to glucose/dextrose. It appears that I have more research to do, I don't know anything about glucose yet...
Anyway, this (theoretically) should be a better plan, correct?
PWO: 50-75g high GI carbs (malt/dext 50/50) and 30-50g whey protein
PPWO: 50-100g relatively high GI carbs, 20-40g protein.

If anyone feels like answering (if not, I'll just poke around more on Google), where does glucose fit into the picture?

Have you read the how to bulk sticky? There is a very good section on this in that article.

Either way, you want PWO shake to look similar to what you have, but your PPWO should be a meal, not a shake, and I would go with low GI carbs there, something like basmati rice, yams, or whole grains. And good lean protien.

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I don't do this for my family, my friends, women, accolades, pride, or ego. I do it for me and no one else, its just part of who I am.

The sticky kind of brought glucose into the picture, but didn't explain it much. I'll google it.

Glucose isnt something you eat or drink really, glucose is the form of sugar your body transports through the blood to fuel your cells.

I'm not sure but I think the pre and post workout nutrition thread sticky might mention this stuff in there. Goes into a little more detail than the how to bulk.

Dextrose, for all intents and purposes, is the same as glucose. It is the natural from of glucose...D-Glucose. The reason people use grape juice or some other juices is they are high in glucose relative to fructose. But glucose in general is the monosaccharide plants make. Just keep in mind that when people say glucose in terms of pre and post they are talking about dextrose.

The dextrose you buy in powder form is made from corn. A half and half mixture of malto and dex like you have planned is best...so that's all you need to know about glucose. If you want to know the reasons and ideas it's all in there.

Grape juice is popular because it has a lot of dextrose. Basically, if I remember correctly, it's 16% sugars. 8% dextrose and 8% fructose...no sucrose. Sucrose is made of fructose and glucose so that makes grape juice pretty dextrose (glucose) heavy when you look at the shear amount of carbs and the percentages compared to other fruits. But all fruits contain mixtures and not just fructose.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

I was gonna refer him there. We posted quite a bit I think about pre and post workout nutrition. Check that thread out first FlyUSMC.

Your pre and post meals seem like a helluva lot. OK I guess if you're pretty big to begin with and can handle it but it would make me sick eating that much before a workout. You don't need that much for your workout to be fully effective is my point. Maybe less would get the amino's etc. in your blood quicker as well..Scorcher2005 had a good point that supports this..


Iron

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"Perago Validus"

I think you're thinking my PWO was my pre-workout meal. It's a PWO, though. So to revise it, I'll do 2 scoops of whey (48g pro), a banana (30g carb), and however much grape juice will give me 40g or so of carbs. That seems like a ton of sugar though, is that necessary or should I look for a different high GI food to add on as well? *goes to read the stickies again to make sure I didn't miss something...again*

Scratch that, once again I am an idiot. Bananas are low GI carbs (I could have sworn they were the opposite), and so are apples. I read the full pre/pwo sticky, have formed a final (I think...) plan, at least until I can get some dex/malto

Pre-workout: 20-30g carbs from grape juice, 12-15g whey
PWO: 60g glucose carbs (grape juice), 20-30g whey

Well that's that, time to go lift.