lol, well said!
this is why i love this site! one simple question can be broadened and expanded on to inculde much bigger concepts simply because of the knowledge and experience level of the people here. i am really glad i answered you the way i did because i just learned a whole shitload here. first is that i still dont know jack squat about training, lol. seriously though, when i look back in my journals i am seeing my self applying the SDT concepts instinctively when i felt that my form was becoming a concern due to the weight on the bar. but i've never really applied them consciously. I believe that it isnt just the influence of Rip at work here but also my lack of progress using bbing style workouts for so long that i think i rejected any notion of the concepts of double or triple progression as being an effective part of planning my program. its funny how this discussion came along at a time when i really need this info. i've hit a wall again in my training and all that's running through my head the last 2 weeks is oh god not ANOTHER back off and ramp up, and honestly i am filled with doubts as to weather this is the way i should be doing things at all. plus my joints are getting stiff as hell these last 2 or 3 weeks. i KNEW i needed to do something different but just had no idea what to do (or possibly have too many vague ideas what to do, but nothing concrete, i dunno) and i dont feel i need to move on to intermediate type stuff yet. i have been reading at the GUS site but man, there is a LOT to read and understand so its going slowly, when i have the time and the brain power to assimilate it, somewhat, lol. oh and i dont blame you for not wanting to write all that info in the link again. but i do need to READ it again, maybe about 10 times. anyway, a great discussion, much to think about, TY!! |
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Of course most of these type of discussions are going to come back to Starting Strength because that is such a huge influence both there in the past couple years and in all the forums. But I recognized that people have their own reasons for doing things and we don't have to blame everything on Rip. Just most of them, lol. But I'm not saying that even SDT is the "best" thing to do and I actually DON'T think a beginner should program all the lifts that way because there are the needs of the program AND there are the needs of the lift. You have to balance them somehow. But it's nothing very complicated or over-thought. I take SDT and try to make it a thing that people can use in some kind of one step to another way. But that doesn't mean I think it's the only thing to do. Actually it's kind of the opposite. People put a lot more thought into rationalizing how their particular cookie cutter is so very magnificent then you actually have to to just train, lol. Quote:
As far as all that "when I'm intermediate" stuff I think it's just another mental trap. It's kind of silly to think that someone is supposed to keep training like a beginner until the bar decides he's an intermediate at which time he is supposed to keep training like an intermediate for even longer. Do you learn to walk by just keeping on crawling until the day you can crawl an arbitrary distance and are allowed to walk? You know I have a newsletter and in the last one I wrote about doubles. Basically saying why they are good and why do them instead of singles or doubles, etc..and I said that if you are ready for lifting heavier but still don't feel you're at the level where you can use singles they are a great way to get started. Then I explained briefly how to do that. Looking at the stats there are a handful of people opening that letter dozens of times. Just probably over that doubles part. And it's not because of doubles per se I can guarantee you. It's because it's like they suddenly think "I'm allowed to do that? Holy shit, I don't have to do the same old thing?". A big light bulb and epiphany moment by just saying..you can 1. lift heavier and 2. have fun doing it. I think that one thing we have to be on guard for is what people present as 'fact'. Because usually what they present as fact is assumption. Assumptions are fine but they have to be REASONABLE assumptions. But you do not build a whole training philosophy on assumptions because they WILL fail no matter how reasonable they are. They only fit the narrow circumstances you are using them for. |
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excellent discussion! |
Training for strength and training for mass is different. I don't really understand the question tbh.
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Some people have more than one goal and while training for strength and training for mass is different the parameters do overlap. You do have to grow eventually to increase your absolute strength (despite what hacks like Pavel would like you to believe).
If you want to separate the two into extreme camps such as bodybuilding high volume bodypart splits on one end and training for absolute strength on the other then yeah, they are not the same :) |
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