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Topshelf 10-04-2007 09:01 AM

Malto/Dextrose mixing question
So after over 2 months of bulking I finally read the "How to Bulk" sticky and realized that my diet is complete crap. I don't know how you guys eat like that sample plan, but I'm gonna give it a try. Anyway, I have a question about the PWO shake. Everything I read says to make a 50/50 mix of malto/dextrose with whey protein. I found what seems like a good brand of products (NOW) so I'm ordering up jugs of all 3 ingredients. The only thing that I wanted to verify is that the 50/50 mix refers to serving size, right? I mean there's 47g of sugar in a 1/2 cup serving of malto, but only 4g of sugar in a 1.25 tsp serving of dextrose. It would take 12 servings of the dextrose to equal the 47g of sugar, so that can't be possible, can it? And is this the easiest way to go? Or are there good pre-mixed powders out there that I don't know about? Sorry for the noob question, but this stuff gets confusing.:)

EricT 10-04-2007 10:49 AM

Yeah, that's the way it works but you don't need almost 100 grams of carbs all at once. You can start with around 60 around your workout. Half for pre and half for post. Pre is the most important.

hrdgain81 10-04-2007 11:15 AM

^^ I'd say Post is most important, but lets not split hairs here :biglaugh:

There are premixed shakes out there for pre and post workout, the biggest problems with them are they are one size fits all, so you may be taking in more/less then you actually need, and they are all expensive IMO. Mixing your own is the best way to do it, this way if start to put on a little chub, you can back off on carbs, ect. Many of the premixed shakes also contain a decent amount of fat, which you dont want in your pre or post w/o shake.

Topshelf 10-04-2007 11:31 AM

OK, so I should aim for around 30g of each carb then? Mix them together and drink half of the shake about an hour before workout, then finish the rest immediately after? Also, how much protein should I add to this concoction? You guys should charge people to spend a day or two with them going over all this stuff.:D

EricT 10-04-2007 12:31 PM

In terms of pre for shakes we are talking about immeditately pre...say 15 minutes..otherwise for an hour before you want some slower digesting stuff. Both would be good.

I'm going by the studies, hrdgain. Not personal opinion. Just because the guys that wrote the bulking sticky say they believe it's the most important doesn't mean too much to me. There has been more research done on the subject since that was written anyway. We have a whole sticky on this info, rather than the little bit of info in the how to bulk sticky. I invite people to read that info and come to their own conclusions. The stuff you take in immediately pre will be there just when you need it post PLUS delivering carbs as you work. That way there is no waiting around for the post to take effect. Although I'm definitely not saying I think post is unimportant!

I agree if you are not doing fast carbs and protein immediately pre then post becomes more important. Otherwise the fast stuff immediately pre will be do more for you. But of course I think you should do both. I don't mind splitting hairs a little bit :biglaugh:

Some people do up to 30 grams for pre and post...and maybe more for post. I don't think you need more than 15 to 20 grams for pre. Having too much protein is going to be detrimental to the fast delivery.

If you start with a basic mix of 15 to 20 grams of protein and 30 to 40 grams of carbs for both pre and post that should be a perfect way to start. Plenty of water.

Topshelf 10-04-2007 01:15 PM

Thanks a million Eric. I read through that other sticky, but I have to be honest. There's sooooo much info in there that it's hard to digest it. It would be great if there was a Cliff notes sticky. Just listing the hard facts, no explanations. List what to eat, when to eat it and how to supplement. Then let the readers go into the other stickies for the reasons to it.

Anyway, I'm placing an order for that stuff tonight. Next up I'll hit the supplement forum for a few q's. ;)

EricT 10-04-2007 01:32 PM

That's why I gave you my opinion of the basic formula to start with. You don't need to read all of that to get started and of course there is more info out there to be had. But it's worth it to read it all eventually and take notes or whatever you have to do so that you have info on the options that are available to you. It is never a good idea to go by one or two guys interpretation of stuff, including mine. Any "hard facts" would be strictly general and would by no means be applicable equally to everyone. If we had a 'just the facts' thing like you said we would spend as much time undoing the generalizations of it as we would answering questions about it. It is also just not that complicated. In other words, although some of the articles are very specific there is no need to be very scientific and precise about it. Just start with a general formula and adjust according to how it affects you. If you have specific questions about what to do along the way just post up. Really any of the things posted in there would be great to start with.

Anything proporting to be the 'facts' is usually just the 'opinions'.

You just have to be willing to do the work and experiment, etc. There really are no shortcuts.

Topshelf 10-04-2007 04:05 PM

That makes sense and all. But dammit, a shortcut every now and then wouldn't hurt.:D

I'll post up more. I hate asking noob questions, but sometimes there's only so much searching the forums you can do.

Thanks again.

EricT 10-04-2007 04:11 PM

I feel ya. But you know shortcuts are invariably what lead people to disregard certain things that are effective. Or to go on doing the same thing for eons that has ceased to be effective. For instance people complain about the bloating and cramping from creatine mono but never take the one second to realize that it is because they wanted the 'shortcut' of a loading period with massive doses. So they go around unfairly criticizing mono and recommending a bunch of expensive fancy shit. Just one example.

Another would be how so many people seem to think wms (waxy maize starch) is WAY more superior than it really is for pre and post. But then if you read between the lines you'll find that it is either the first protocal they've ever used or their previous protocol sucked since they never put any thought into it but just went by the first stuff they saw posted up.

Question everything. I don't care what a bunch of defensive gurus say. My thoughts on this stuff evolve all the time. Gather in all the info you can and try to interpret and form conclusions as well as seeking opinions on it from others. If something is beyond your expertise and you can't get an answer refer out to professional's more qualified than you. Getting stuck in a rut because you gave in to short term simplifications will almost always be to your detriment later down the road.

Pitysister 10-05-2007 12:21 PM

my malto/dex is waiting at ups for me :) i'm very excited to start it next week.

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