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Darkvision 10-01-2008 07:56 AM

WTF, 360 grams of protein per day to grow!?
Hey every1.

So I recently started off MAX-OT training program.

[I was the kid who did Rippetoe's for 1.5 year with no gains whatsoever but a measly 5 pounds + fat]

anyways, same thing started happening.. I gave it FULL INTENSITY, lifted as hard as I could, highest weight I could with perfect form and controlled progressive increases. Problem is ass soon as I progressed 5 - 10 poounds over a week period or two I'd fail on the 2nd rep and I was supposed to be in the 4-6 rep range. So its like my body wont grow and adapt.

Anywhoo... so I'm beggining to think my lack of strength/mass increases is due to my nutrition.

Maybe I'm not getting enough protein in, I just filled out this nutritional calculator.. look what it says:


Calories - 3280
With an ectomorph body type at a body weight of 205 pounds and a "Moderately Active" activity level, your total daily caloric intake should be 3280 calories.

It's important to divide your total calorie intake over 6 small meals each day. This keeps a steady supply of nutrients flowing to your muscles and elevates your metabolic rate. As you add muscle your daily caloric needs will increase. If you are having trouble meeting your caloric needs Muscle-XGF provides a scientifically engineered formula of dense calories and proven growth nutrients for lean muscle gain without adding fat.

Protein: 360.8 grams
Protein builds muscle. In fact, it's the only macro-nutrient that goes directly towards building new muscle. Of these 3280 calories 1443.2 should come strictly from protein. That equals 360.8 grams of protein per day.

Choose lean sources such as grilled chicken, fish, eggs, skim milk, and lean red meat. VP2 Whey Isolate is considered the best protein for stimulating protein synthesis and Ny-Tro PRO-40 is a perfect high-protein meal replacement.

Carbohydrates: 303.4 grams
The calories derived strictly from carbohydrates each day should total 1213.6 calories. This means your total carbohydrate intake per day in grams should be 303.4. Carbohydrates supply fuel for working muscles and are critically important to optimizing your nutritional requirements. Too low a carbohydrate intake can cause your body to catabolize lean muscle for it's energy needs.

Good complex carbohydrate sources include fibrous vegetables such as green beans, cabbage, whole grains, beans, and leafy greens. Simple carbohydrate sources include fruits, sugars, fruit juices and syrups. Quick energy carbs from DGC and Creatine HSC contain perfect carbohydrates for pre and post-workout nutrition.

Fat: 69.24 grams
Believe it or not fat is an important nutrient. However, it's all too easy to over consume. This being the case you should always strive to keep your fat intake to a minimum. Out of the 3280 calories you consume a day only 623.2 grams of fat per day. The majority of these fats should consist of polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, omega 3, 6, and 9 fats.

Good fats come from seeds, nuts, olive oil, and fish.

Normally I'd be like WHOA that's too much protein, but guys.. I HAVENT GROWN. I've been chugging down 2 chicken breasts, big 5 egg omelette in the morning, 1 hamburger, 2 servings of whey, yogurt, milk, cottage cheese, DAILY...

and still not near enough protein.. I think the above average day for me comes out to about 180ish grams of protein.

I read a quote by dr john berardi that said "most trainees train hard enough to grow, they just dont eat enough to support it"

so the "recommended MAX-OT diet" is as follows:


Below is a structured diet and supplementation plan that follows the Max-OT nutrition parameters. You will need to make modifications or adjustments to the actual serving sizes to accommodate your individual body weight and to meet the 53/37/10 - protein, carbohydrate, to fat ratio.

* Meal 1: 6AM
1 packet of Ny-Tro PRO-40 mixed with 16 ounces of skim milk and 1 serving of Micronized Creatine

* Meal 2: 9AM
2 servings VP2 Whey Isolate mixed in 10 ounces of skim milk
1 large apple

* Meal 3: 12PM
2 grilled chicken breasts
1 Serving Rice
1 cup of low-fat Yogurt
1 serving VP2 Whey Isolate in 8 ounces skim milk.

* Meal 4: 3PM
1 packet Ny-Tro PRO-40 mixed with 16 ounces of skim milk and 5 to 10 grams of GL3 L-Glutamine
1 large banana
2 Dymetadrine Xtreme
1 VyoPro Protein Bar

* Meal 5: 6PM (Post-workout)
2 servings VP2 Whey Isolate combined with 1 serving Creatine HSC mixed in cold water. (This is an important meal and is designed for an insulin spike at just the right time to increase creatine and amino acid uptake by the muscle cells.)

* Meal 6: 7PM
8 to 10 ounces of lean round or flank steak
1 large serving of rice
1 medium baked potato
1 large green salad

* Meal 7: 10PM
1 packet of Ny-Tro PRO-40 mixed with 9 ounces of skim milk
1 large banana
3 to 5 grams of GL3 L-Glutamine
(Mix the Ny-Tro PRO-40 and GL3 in a large bowl into a smooth pudding. Slice the banana on top and eat. It's a dessert.)

This is a very, very effective diet and supplement program for adding muscle mass. Add this to an intense Max-OT training program and you can't help but put on muscle.

This diet and supplement program is designed to provide a steady supply of nitrogen yielding protein while actively maintaining proper insulin levels throughout the day. It also integrates with your workout and provides a potent insulin spiking meal supplying bio-active peptides and micronized creatine to take advantage of the unique and very critical "window" created by intense Max-OT training.
that's what I Was going to do originally is get a weight gainer. is this a good idea? problem is the one above is taken 3 times a day, and its 60$ for 20 packets.

wow. that wont even get me through the week, I'm a starving college student. that shitload of supplements I'm sure half of them I'll just piss out, I'm looking for real ones that work.

I'm willing to put in the time and effort... still trying to grow. thanks everyone for your input and PLEASE only respond if you HAVE GROWN BEFORE SIGNIFICANTLY. I dont want this thread flooded with 11-year old timmy who eats burger king but since he started to do squats he "packed on 5 pounds of rock hard muscle!!!"

so what exactly should I be eating everyday to get more protein, and is 350 too much? bear in mind I haven't grown in the past so I'm ready for some dramatic changes...

(p.s. optimum nutrition's "SERIOUS MASS" weight gainer looks good too..but I can only afford maybe 2 weeks supply each month.."

Cradler 10-01-2008 08:43 AM

just my two cents, but...

forget the supplements, if you're a college student then you probably have access to an all-you-can-eat cafeteria. take FULL advantage of it. and i would say at a bodyweight of 205 you should be eating closer to 4000 calories personally... for bulking i would never drop below 20cal/lb.

i don't know why you think we wouldn't know about bulking, but as someone who's gone from 185lb. at 25%bf to 215lb. at 15%bf i guess i fit your expectations.

oh, and ON's serious mass is, like most weight gainers, loaded with sugar. it's also ridiculously expensive.

edit - and you asked WHAT you should eat to get more protein... i don't know about your cafeteria, but at mine there is as much egg whites as we want at breakfast (along with stoves) and at lunch/dinner unlimited grilled chicken, turkey, etc. look around, there's probably something.

Ross86 10-01-2008 09:49 AM


Problem is ass soon as I progressed 5 - 10 poounds over a week period or two I'd fail on the 2nd rep and I was supposed to be in the 4-6 rep range. So its like my body wont grow and adapt.
Your progression is the reason you aren't gaining. You shouldn't be failing after a week or two. Your body isn't growing because you're not giving it the right stimulus. There's a concept called PROGRESSIVE overload. You're just overloading without giving much thought to progress. It's like if you were to walk up to the back of a car that you can't pick up and trying to pick it up every day. You'll never be able to pick it up if that's your approach. You should have your progression set up so you hit new numbers every 4-5 weeks in your case.

Eat food like Cradler said. Lots of protein. Read the stickies in the nutrition forum.

Cradler 10-01-2008 12:40 PM

^^x2, definitely, good call ross

Darkvision 10-01-2008 04:16 PM

I live in an apartment so I have to buy all my food, that's why I was asking what's the best bang for my buck [ highest protein foods]

Cool cool thanks for your response Ross but I'm not doing that exactly. I usually fail 3 weeks later. ( 3 workouts for say arm day)

For example. Week 1: Barbell bicep curl @ 65. week 2: 70. week 3: 72.5, week 3: 75, week 4: 77.5 .. FAIL!!!

edit: a month later and no significant mass packed on arms (or shoulders or whatever I'm working)

I've been doing that basic approach for over 2 years now so its not working, do you guys know where I can go to read up on how to progressively increase better? any threads? I cant seem to find anything


You should have your progression set up so you hit new numbers every 4-5 weeks in your case.
So say I fail at 75 on the barbell curl. I should start at 60 and go up 5 pounds until in 4-5 weeks I hit 75 or 77.5 ?

See, I've been doing this for 2 years and I still havent been growing.

I can scan in my training journal if you want..I started a new one a month ago when I moved

Ross: so what's the right stimulus?

Pitysister 10-01-2008 04:34 PM

bicep curls are not worth progressing on. they are not "a lift".

Pitysister 10-01-2008 04:35 PM

the right stimulus is not isolation movements.

Kane 10-01-2008 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by Darkvision (Post 67705)
For example. Week 1: Barbell bicep curl @ 65. week 2: 70. week 3: 72.5, week 3: 75, week 4: 77.5 .. FAIL!!!

Think for a second. Over 4 workouts you added 12.5lbs to an isolation exercise that uses some of your smallest muscles. Progression should not be based on bicep curl progress, like Pity said.

iron_worker 10-02-2008 07:14 AM

Are you doing the prescribed lifts for 5x5?

You should take what you can do for a 5RM and chop that by at *least* 20%. Start there. Then progress 5lbs per week. This is progressive overload. If you start too high you just smack a wall right away and thats it. You should probably have at least 4 weeks before you're starting to fail.

If you're broke then ditch the supps. Clean & Whole food will take you alot of places if you use it correctly.


Darkvision 10-03-2008 10:18 AM

So what's the proper stimulation? the big3? I did the big 3 for a year (And still am) and my arms look the same..I used to squat 135, I'm now at 205.

oh and I'm not doing 5x5, its more like 2x4-6 with different lifts per muscle group.

so in total like 6 or 8 sets of reps of 4-6 heavvvyyy

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