You must have misunderstood me, Anuj. Nothing in your training history suggests you can really max out on box squats and deads the same day.

But the results were very good and I am certainly pleased. I agree with IW (and pity) that you have 385 in the bag but it's up to you whether you won't to try it again later. I don't think it matters much and you are at an advanced enough stage that I don't think it's realistic to always be albe to improve all your big lifts at once.

But it's all about preparedness and the fact that 355 felt hard this time and felt "like speed work" that last time should tell you something.

The results of this plan are supposed to be cummulative.

You have speed deadlifts and rack pulls from knees for the first 4 weeks.

Deads slighty elevated the next four.

Snatch grips, and speed AND rack pulls from knees the next 4.

Speed deadlift for the the last 3 and sumos for the last two.

I think that's all about right...

That's along with anderson front squats, box squatting, all sorts of lunges, pistols....

So based on all that, why pick on rack deads? I mean I understand and I agree that rack deads don't really help me "finish" my deads. Guess, what, EC would probably agree with that. It's not why he put them in. But from 16 weeks of various work we can hardly surmise at this point that rack deads were the problem. Especially since just last week you blamed it on snatch grip :D

I don't recommend you get anything extra Anuj. I was just speaking from my experience with them. I don't know anything about what you're doing. :D

I understand what you mean, Eric. I didn't misunderstand you. I just took what you said out of context. You told me that doing everything on moving day actually helps you to progress. You left the door open for me. I presumed that if it helps you it must help me too :biglaugh:

regarding Rack Pulls...I am not saying Rack Pulls are bad. All I am saying is that my problem is getting the weight off the floor. If I managed to Rack Dead 365 for 2x5 and then 315 for 1x7 then I probably should've been able to nail 385. But I was not able to. So I still stick to what I said last week: I need to work more on snatch grip deads or deficit deadlifts.

I think I will try 385 this wednesday. If coming into the workout I feel off and I know I can't do it, we will assume that my new 1RM for deads is 385.

I bet you can get 405:)

DH: I understand.

TALO: Nope. I tried and failed miserably. 405 is too heavy. I got it utp my knee and my stomach collapsed. I need to increase my core strength. And add to that my chest hurt because it just caved in. I need to build a stirdy upper body too....405 is a big milestone. Hopefully I will hit sometime....

No, actually that's not what I was saying. What you do on moving day isn't going to amount to a hill of beans in the big scheme of things.

Since I suggested to do them on different days rather all on one day as per EC's plan, I was only pointing out that I understood WHY he did it that way.

You know this is a "strength" program and not a squat, deads, and press program. The idea is to DISPLAY that strength through the use of these tests that he thinks (as do I) are great indicators of overall absolute strength.

But you don't normally train heavy squats and heavy deads on the same day (HEAVY being the operative word). And you don't really do well having so much cns intensive work together. Etc...so on.

I wanted you to be able to do as well as possible because you'd feel good about that and that is more important than any other consideration.

I wasn't meaning to debate what DH and you said about the rack pulls per se..he was just responding to what you said based on his experience, like he said, I happen to agree in general as far as the direct correlation. So D, I was just talking about the context of the whole program and not getting in your face about that :)

I was just putting it into context for you because you are looking at TODAY and analysing it out of the whole context, then coming to a faulty conclusion about rack pulls, imo. You can woulda shoulda coulda till you blue in the face, haha.

You've got 16 weeks of training to pick apart, and you sill couldn't know for sure. There are too many variables. You improved most everything and I think you actually have improve your deads you just weren't prepared.

But I'm not sure that the problem is "off the floor", yet. Remember you're stick point is a few inches off the floor which is typical anyway. In which case all those speed deads should have helped but there truth is who the hell knows.

I agree, however, about not doing a lot of rack deads. This program, unfortunately WAS a cookie cutter and it was meant for people who were getting into strength training after being stuck in bodybuilding mode for a while. People who have gotten stronger but not lived up to their potential.

Therefore speed deads were an oppurtunity for 'technique' work, in a way, and the racks were an oppurtunity to pull big weights and to build up upper back mass, strength, and endurance..i.e. getting you used to supporting the big stuff.

The thing about the rack deads if you put in in context with all the other stuff is you can actually get away with a lot of it more that you could have gotten away with throwing in a lot of reg deads in there place, or deficit, or whatever. I'm speaking in the context of this program. It's weird, I know but it's true.

So my point is...there was enough there, "theoretically" to improve deads....with the rack deads being an oppurtunity you wouldn't have had in the same environment to do quite so much pulling without possible seeing training detriments.

Could you imagine, for instance, in weeks 9 through 12, doing snatch grips and speed deadlifts on the first lower body (along with walking squats), and then turning around and doing regular deads on the second lower body like this instead of rack deads:

3x5, 2x7
2x5, 1x7
3x5, 2x7
2x5, 1x7

Along with speed squats and bulgarian isometric holds? And with all the other volume of the week?

So you maybe could have done snatch grips on the first day and then deficits on the second?

Did the rack pulls help? Maybe, maybe not. Did they hurt? Nah.

You see what I'm saying? You would have wanted to change up the entire program, lol and we can nitpick all we want but it was put together very logically especially for a mass audience. Given I only just described the deadlifting for 9 through 12.

BTW, read what you just said to TALO about 405. And then tell me how your problem is off the floor. EXCEPT of course that getting more power off the floor helps you ride through that sticky point somewhat.

I understand what you mean, sir. I do think the program was spot on and I probably have progressed - I'm just not prepared right now. Which is fine. I just need to get the ball rolling again next week...

I know rack deads were there for a reason. I am infact, looking at Phase 2 and 3 just before I read this post. Doing 2 deadlift variations with a higher load 2x a week and distributing them properly was a challenge and EC managed to overcome that. Infact, in Msocycle 2 (which I am working on), I intend on doing rack deads for sure, sir.

Like you said: there is no one single thing. It's like a little bit of everything. So hopefully, by continuing to do what we do, I will be able to overcome 405 off the floor :)

I understand what you mean, sir.

That all I was getting at. You look at today and the other day you tried deads and you'd come up with different conclusions.

But based on what I've seen I think the plan you have in place is right. Banded speed deads would be good as well. You really should get some bands. Chains can certainly wait.

Which bands from EFS would you suggest? Or is APT better?

I looked at the sticky in the PL forum...

http://www.prowriststraps.com/inc/sdetail/80361

Or which one would you prefer from EliteFTS:

Average Flex Band: http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...id=138&pid=248

Light Flex Band: http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...id=138&pid=247

Mini Flex Band: http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...id=138&pid=246

Monster Mini Flex Band: http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...id=138&pid=515

Which one would you prefer? I'll place the order right away, sir..

The ones at APT are Iron Woody. That's what I use. But they're all pretty much tha same as far as I know.

I'm pretty sure D uses the JS bands and they actually may be more popular. Actually I don't know what he uses exaclty, I'll let him speak for himself :D. Honestly, I don't think it matters, lol, I get whatever is the cheapest. So that is iron woody bands from liftinglarge.com last time I bought.