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Hyper Abbreviated Routine



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  #1  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:30 AM
Jonson Jonson is offline
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Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
Jonson yes but that's not my case. I'm making progress in the DL, Press and Curl. I'm able to increase the weight progressively but I have to be patient. At the end of the year I'll be much stronger IF I don't try to increase the load too fast which would overtrain me.

Wolf I hope for you that you can make progress despite your (over)training.
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Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
Deadlift : 160, 179.5 easy
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Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
Workout number 3 : (since the adjustment of the loads)

Deadlift : 130, 145
[BTW I knew this video but it was funny to look at it again ! My form was not as bad as that but my back was rounded.
Great progress, from an easy 179.5 with a rounded back to 145 with a strait back
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2009, 12:00 PM
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Kinryoku Kinryoku is offline
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Yes when I did 179.5kg it felt easy. It means that I could have lifted probably around 185kg. With a straight back my 1RM is around 155kg and thus 30kg lighter. MAYBE I'll be able to lift much heavier after 2-3 weeks of adaptation to the new style. BUT when you round your back the distance is shorter and the hips/tighs aren't in the same position. For ME it was much easier to lift with a rounded back BUT like I said I may be able to lift much heavier with a good technique in a few weeks. We will see...

179.5kg on the DL is my absolute best performance it was a Personal Record and thus I make progress. If you look at the strongest Pullers they very often round their back for a maximum performance. You know BOB PEOPLES ? Here's what he said about DL :

Quote:
Bob had learned as much about deadlifting as anybody ever had—and then some: “At this time I waslifting on normally filled lungs. However I then started lifting on empty lungs and with a round back — that is, I would breathe out to normal, then do my deadlift. I feel this is safer than followingt he customary advice . . . to take a deep breath and then deadlift. By breathing out you lessen the internal pressure and by lifting with a round back, you lessen the leverage all of which helps add many pounds to your lift.”
Yes you are stronger (maybe not 30kg stronger) but the muscles of the back are easily overtrained and the risk ofinjury increase despite what says Bob Peoples.
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2009, 12:00 PM
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Kane Kane is offline
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If you read about strength training for about five minutes you'd know that you can perform high intensity training for extended periods of time by manipulating volume to dissipate fatigue.

Not only this but you would also know that 1 rep is NOT enough to create a training effect, even if you're a beginner.

You're so fixated on fatigue and overtraining that you're dwarfing your training to the point where it becomes pointless and of no use. Fatigue is a side effect of your training stressor, it is not the main goal and it is not something you get directly. You don't exercise to fatigue muscles, you exercise and the stressor causes fatigue, you train for the stressor.

Increases in fitness or ability come from chronic exposure because your body adapts to the environment its put in, not because you lifted a heavy barbell one time.

Do you really know how hard it is to overtrain? Because it is not easy. You can overeach for quite some time before you become overtrained. What you thought was overtraining could have been overreaching.

And seriously, how can you say with a straight face that a single rep bicep curl is a measure of strength. Floor press, deadlift and bicep curl are your measures of strength. That is not even close to being a balanced program.

Like Ross said, I hope nobody is taking ths seriously because this is NOT the way to do strength training.

I'll leave you with this. Today I did 8 singles on deadlifts, all well above 90% and probably higher than 95%, next week I will do 6, the week after 10 and the week after that 2 singles. In one month I have performed some very intense lifting, disipatted fatigue by managing volume and that amount of volume (during one month for me) would take you 26 sessions.

26 sessions @ 3-4 sessions per week is about 6-8 weeks. I repeat my cycle for a full year (which I have done) and that is equivalent to 312 of your 1 rep sessions. 3-4 sessions per week is 78-104 weeks which is 1.5-2 years.

We could keep going but my point is that it takes you 1.5-2 times longer to get the same volume.
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2009, 12:03 PM
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That bob peoples quote is bullshit. You bring air in to brace your lumbar and core. You can round the top of the back, that is allowed during a very heavy lift (thoracic spine) but ANYONE that says to exhale and round the spine for 'increased leverage' is a moron. Regardless of their name or how much they can leverage up on a deadlift.

And the muscles of the back are not easily overtrained. Youre throwing that word around as if you KNOW what it means.
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2009, 12:25 PM
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Kinryoku Kinryoku is offline
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Even rounding the top of the back can be dangerous I injuried my (top) back like that in 2007 with a 172kg DL. I had to stop DL for 1 year.

Kane, I'll try to answer to your post :

Quote:
Not only this but you would also know that 1 rep is NOT enough to create a training effect, even if you're a beginner.
I don't think a lot of beginner can curl up to 28.5kg per arm back against a wall. If 1 rep was not enough I would LOSE strength not even maintain. But in reality I get stronger. So maybe you don't believe me but you cannot tell me that One Rep is not enough for a training effect. We can discuss if it's optimal or not.

Quote:
You're so fixated on fatigue and overtraining that you're dwarfing your training to the point where it becomes pointless and of no use. Fatigue is a side effect of your training stressor, it is not the main goal and it is not something you get directly. You don't exercise to fatigue muscles, you exercise and the stressor causes fatigue, you train for the stressor.
Fatigue is absolutely not the goal and should be avoided like the plague if your goal is STRENGTH. The Stimulus is Force Generation (and thus probably Rate of Energy Depletion).

Quote:
Increases in fitness or ability come from chronic exposure because your body adapts to the environment its put in, not because you lifted a heavy barbell one time.
My goal is Strength not fitness/conditioning. I don't train to be able to do 10 heavy singles or a 10RM. I train for 1RM : maximum strength.

Quote:
Do you really know how hard it is to overtrain? Because it is not easy. You can overeach for quite some time before you become overtrained. What you thought was overtraining could have been overreaching.
Call it like you want, when I LOSE strength it's because I "over-train". Too High Efforts imply that muscles cannot sustain the tension desired. The CNS/PNS try to compensate the loss of contractile force by increasing rate coding and this huge effort leads to overtraining of the muscles or more probably of the PNS which is depleted or damaged due to too high rate coding.

Quote:
And seriously, how can you say with a straight face that a single rep bicep curl is a measure of strength. Floor press, deadlift and bicep curl are your measures of strength. That is not even close to being a balanced program.
A 1RM = Maximum Strength. Curl is done back against a wall. Unilateral Dumbbell Floor Press is very strict exercise and you cannot really cheat on DL but you have to compare what's comparable : round back vs round back, straight back vs straight back. Floor Press works the Chest, Triceps and Shoulders, Curl the Biceps and Deadlift whole Back + Quads, Hams, Calves, Glutes, etc. I think it's a well balanced routine. My row increase as my DL and Curl increase so adding a ROW wouldn't do much if anything. It's not the time for me to add exercises. I'll do it but later... I still have others tests to do before.

Quote:
Like Ross said, I hope nobody is taking ths seriously because this is NOT the way to do strength training.
It's up to you to take it seriously or not. I report my workouts as they are. It would be easy for me to tell you that my DL went from 180kg to 200kg within a few months but that's not the case.

Quote:
I'll leave you with this. Today I did 8 singles on deadlifts, all well above 90% and probably higher than 95%, next week I will do 6, the week after 10 and the week after that 2 singles. In one month I have performed some very intense lifting, disipatted fatigue by managing volume and that amount of volume (during one month for me) would take you 26 sessions.
I did 6x1x95% everyday on Curl and I could do it everyday on DL. I don't because that's not necessarily nor desirable. The goal is not to do as much volume as possible.

Quote:
26 sessions @ 3-4 sessions per week is about 6-8 weeks. I repeat my cycle for a full year (which I have done) and that is equivalent to 312 of your 1 rep sessions. 3-4 sessions per week is 78-104 weeks which is 1.5-2 years. We could keep going but my point is that it takes you 1.5-2 times longer to get the same volume.
I train everyday (and I'm still not 100% sure that it is necessarily for the best gains) but again the goal is not maximum volume. The Goal is to generate a maximum force and repeat it as often as needed (supposedly everyday). I did several tests on frequency and it seems that training a muscle daily is the best but another 2 months test is needed.
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  #6  
Old 07-06-2009, 01:25 PM
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Increased rate coding does not necessarily lead to overtraining, it leads to increased fatigue accumulation. Failing a rep or lift something very heavy will not overtrain you, even if your rate coding sky rockets. If you're silly enough to fail every workout or do 20 singles every day then sure it will, but we're not talking about that here.

Quote:
Increases in fitness or ability come from chronic exposure because your body adapts to the environment its put in, not because you lifted a heavy barbell one time.
That was a dual factor reference, not an aerobics reference or a stamina reference.

I'm very well aware of strength training and what its about. You're missing my whole point with the bicep curl being a measure of strength. Back against the wall, barbell or dumbbel, it doesn't matter. It is not a measure of strength, its a measure of how much you can curl. Isolation exercises are very poor choices to measure progress or strength.

Take your current exercises and change them to see how well balanced your program is. Throw in compound movements like chinups and overhead squats or pistol squats.
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:11 PM
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_Wolf_ _Wolf_ is offline
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Kane: why are you arguing with this dumb shit? He is an idiot. And most likely a troll.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:55 PM
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Kane: why are you arguing with this dumb shit? He is an idiot. And most likely a troll.
For the benefit of anyone reading this and considering following it.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:57 PM
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For the benefit of anyone reading this and considering following it.
Hmm...I hear you. Just coz he's an idiot doesn't mean people coming in need to believe what he says.

I just think he's a waste....but, if you are helping others out it's always a good thing.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:59 PM
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Kane, I am going to try out a different approach here.

Kinryoku, Please enlighten me on your training methodology. Instead of being a naysayer, please tell me how you believe progression should be done. Please. How do I become the strongest I can ever be?
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