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Thursday July 31st/2008
Weight: 181.5lbs Up 2lbs according to last time. I've been eating quite a bit more this week. I guess it showed. I'm cool with that. Deads -60kg x 5 -90kg x 3 -110kg x 1 -130kg x 1 -150kg 2x1 -155kg 2x1 (Old PR) Well this went very well considering my max is 155kg! I know now that I can lift more. I just have to do it. Nice. Front Low Box Squats bar x 5 95lbs x 5 115lbs x 5 135lbs 2x5 Never have done box squats before so I thought I'd give me a whirl. I let the weight off onto the box (but maintained my arch) and that makes it quite a bit harder. Felt great. Standing BB Military Press - bar x 5 - 85lbs x 3 - 105lbs x 2 - 125lbs x 1 - 135lbs x1,x1,x2,x1 Felt very strong today. I decided not to go for my old PR and I think it was a good choice. Squeezed out 2 reps somehow on the 3rd set and was still able to get one on the 4th set. Awesome. Hanging Leg Raises bw x 8,8,7 Working back to a 3x8. I'm doing them properly now. Lowering my legs controllable to a rest a the bottom then up. Pallof Press/Twist 40lbs x5 45lbs 2x5 Thougths Pretty solid workout today. I felt that my eating was pretty good. I think I'm almost back up to par where I'll start posting my diet again. Got my appliances back in so that helps. Soon my new kitchen will be entirely complete! Holy cow has it taken me alot longer then planned... Going camping this weekend and leaving early 2morrow so only 2 days of workout this week. I want to start my 4 day/week new program soon but I want to get my kitchen all done first. (need the time to work at nights) IronWorker |
Good stuff!
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yeah good work.
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Thanks guys. Well I'm off camping for the weekend. Be back monday sometime.
Hope you all have a good weekend! IronWorker |
Tuesday Aug 5th/2008
Well I had a long weekend of camping which I came home and did a few hours of renos. Needless to say I was feeling pretty lethargic today. Performance was not optimal but thats what I expected. Squats - bar x 5 - 135lbs x 5 - 185lbs x 3 - 205lbs x 1 - 225lbs x 1 - 245lbs x 1 - 255lbs 2x1 - 245lbs x 0 DE Bench - bar x 8 - 95lbs x 5 - 115lbs x 3 - 125lbs 8x3 Shoulders were feeling it after the DE movements. I think this will help my overall bench performance. BB P.Rows 30kg x 5 40kg x 4 50kg x 3 60kg x 2 67.5g 4x8 Dips (supersetted with Pull-ups) bw x 5 bw+25lbs x 8 bw+35lbs x 8 bw+45lbs x 8 Pretty solid. Probably had a lot to do with doing DE bench instead of ME. Pull-Ups bw x 3 bw + 25 x 2 bw x 3,3,4,3 Did quite a few sets but it felt pretty good. Thougths Hoping to be fully rested by thursday to hammer out some sweet deads. IronWorker |
Thursday August 7th/2008
Weight: Right around 180lbs. The scale seemed kinda sticky so I dunno. I've been sweating my ballz off in my apartment so that might have something to do with the weight loss. Deads -60kg x 5 -80kg x 3 -100kg x 2 -120kg x 1 -140kg x 1 -150kg x2,x1,x1 Considering it was a late workout I was sufficiently happy with this. Power Cleans 20kg x 5 30kg x 5 40kg x 5 50kg x 5 60kg x 5 Power cleans are pretty fun. This workout gave me respect for some of those guys in the olypics cleaning like 4x this. lol DE Push Press - bar x 5 - 75lbs x 3 - 95lbs 6x3 Hanging Leg Raises bw x 8,8,7 Stuck at this 3x8. Hmmm. Pallof Press/Twist skipped due to gym closing Thougths Well my buddy bought a new car today so he was busy for a couple hours. We ended up going much later then usual and I was damn near falling asleep! Lol Oh well, it ended up being an ok day. IronWorker |
Monday Aug 11th/2008
I thought I was going to have a shitty monday workout but something clicked today and I had a very strong workout. ME Squats - bar x 5 - 135lbs x 5 - 185lbs x 3 - 205lbs x 2 - 225lbs x 1 - 245lbs x 1 - 265lbs x 1(old PR) - 270lbs x 1(5lb PR) - 275lbs x 1(10lb PR!) - 225lbs x 5 I was fricken amazed with this workout. I knew I had 275 in me but I didn't think it woudl be right after 270! Damn stoked at this point. ME Bench - bar x 8 - 135lbs x 5 - 185lbs x 2 - 205lbs x 1 - 225lbs x 1 - 235lbs x 1 (old PR) - 240lbs x 0 - 205lbs x 2 I missed 240 but I think I was damn close. It shouldn't be long before I have it. BB P.Rows 30kg x 5 40kg x 4 50kg x 3 60kg x 2 70kg 4x8 Its time to switch down to 3x5 but this is a PR of some sort. I dont' really keep track of the accessory movements too well. Hanging Leg Raises bw 3x8 Finally got it. Barely. Very tired at this point. Oblique Twists 40lbs x 5 45lbs x 5 50lbs x 5 Thougths Suprised the crap out of myself today. Felt awesome to finally get that extra 25 plate on the squats. Yes! IronWorker |
Well, I wouldn't worry about keeping track of accesory lifts quite like you do one of your primary lifts (DL, Squat, Bench, whatever) but you should have a general sense if you are getting stronger in your accessory lifts. For instance I have been working on P. Rows for a while and I got up to a hard fought 285x1. This morning I hit 255x5 without a ton of struggle. I would say that this indicates a fair increase in accessory performance, even though all things were not equal (not a 1RM, not the same weight).
I believe Jim Wendler (EFS) says something like this "I don't know what my last max was, but I know for damn sure it wasn't 255x5" And I think it is important to keep that kind of sense about your progress. You may not be able to dial in exactly where you were, but you should know it wasn't where you are. :) |
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Andrew, I agree with you 100%. I usually have an idea where I ended off with my accessory lifts but not always exactly. However, I dont' usually max on my accessories. I'll do heavy triples or heaviest set of 5 but not usually 1RM. What advantage do you see to maxing your accessories other then knowing what that max is?
Pity, thanks for the link. I looked it over quickly for now and there is lots of interesting stuff. I'll give it a good read later ...probably tomorrow when I'm bored at work. lol Thanks for stoppin in boyz! IronWorker |
Thursday August 14th/2008
Weight: Right around 181lbs. Back up a lb from last week. I seem to be fluctuating around this weight. ME Deads -60kg x 5 -80kg x 3 -100kg x 2 -120kg x 1 -140kg x 1 -150kg x 1 -155kg x 1 -140kg x 3 I can hit 155kg on deads pretty consistently. One of these times I'm going to try for 160kg. I think I'm ready. DE Squats -bar x 5 -95lbs x 3 -115lbs x 2 -135lbs 8x2 I have never done DE squats before. It felt a little awkward at first. My feet wanted to move around on me. I think it'll just take a few times at this weight to get used to it. ME BB Military Press - bar x 5 - 75lbs x 3 - 95lbs x 2 - 115lbs x 1 - 135lbs x 1 - 150lbs x 1 (5lb PR!) - 140lbs x 1 - 115lbs x 7 Well this was a pretty awesome day. My shoulder was a bit stiff but once I started warming up it just seemed to smoothe right out. I wasn't planning on maxing out but got a PR out of it. Nice. Pull-ups bw x 6,5,4 Thougths Solid day to day overall. I'm headed out for the weekend to a cabin so that should be fun. I hope everyone has a great weekend. IronWorker |
Nice Pressing IW congrats on the PR.Were those box squats or free squats?
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Thanks Hops!
They were free squats. Are DE generally done on a box? IronWorker |
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Well dont' I feel foolish. lol
IronWorker |
yeah man normally off a box, but Cresseys program has DE free squatting in there somewhere so It would def have its merits.
Hers a good link from Louie simmons http://www.westside-barbell.com/Arti...0Squatting.pdf |
Yeah, DE box squats are DE box squats. I wouldn't automatically assume DE squat were off a box. You can certainly do free DE squats. It's about the load being used.
There is actually a different reason, if you think about it, to do a dynamic movement free or to do it from a dead stop whether off a box or pins or whatever. The thing about doing something from dead stop..is that automatically will take more pure starting strength. I guess you can call that explosivitey. As opposed to a mixture of pure starting strength and elastic response. So if you do box squats DE you you can see a different specific training response than a free squat DE... I guess true starting strength would always be a mixture of course but what I mean here is the abiltiy to initiate a movement from a dead stop sans "momentum". I am probably using some of the terminology wrong but you catch my drift. |
I'm pickin up what you're puttin down...
I'm twining what you're bailing... I'm hoopin what you're dunkin... I'm readin what you're writing... I'm.... ok I guess you get it. lol Sounds like box squats are probably where its at in this case since the whole point of the DE movement is to train explosiveness or fast twitch fibres as they call them in techno terms. IronWorker |
Yeah. Now I would never say that one thing is completely where it's at but really you can't beat box squats (and Anderson squats...love them!) for rate of force development. That's going to be true across the board of course whether you're training speed-strength, strength-speed, or max strength.
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nice pr man :) i thought box squats were fun....but...again...any type of back squat and my knees get pissed. ugh.
speed deads are even more fun :) |
Well put as usual E :)
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Well thanks, hits :)
Thanks Guys, I did want to point out a few things since I’ve noticed so many people are doing DE type training. I’m aware that WSB almost seems to make it a foregone that DE training will be benefit EVERYONE’S absolute strength. Assuming that absolute strength IS your goal and we are not talking about vertical jumps or something there are a few things to consider. The first is that a significant increase in absolute strength is a foundational requirement to develop speed. If you take a person who already has achieved a great deal of strength then that person will not derive too much benefit, in speed terms, from more max strength work or anything of slow velocity. But for a person who is starting out with low or average absolute strength, then strength training including max strength training develops speed, i.e. rate of force development or explosive power…up to a point. What this means is that there is a time in your training that speed work will derive very little ADDITIONAL benefit for you YET. We must assess what we are doing. You can figure out pretty easily whether you are relatively slow or fast at different intensities and that can tell you a bunch. The DE training at lower intensities is not a BAD thing of course. Hell, for one thing it is a perfect “technique” practice. So really what I’m getting at is don’t use a sledge hammer to drive a nail. As an example, if you are an intermediate or more beginning lifter engaged in the business of developing absolute strength (this is assuming that is you one goal and you are not a power athlete) and you put 50% of your 1RM on the bar for DE training only to find that you are lightning fast and are practically sending it into orbit…well…your speed has for the time being improved and coincided with your strength development in general. This is just like it is with everything when first starting out…general adaptation. Fast is fast. On the other hand if 50% (or maybe even 40% depending upon the movement) feels very slow and on par with much higher intensities in terms of speed…well you can figure that out. Likewise with greater and greater intensities moving up the continuum from speed-strength, to power, to strength-speed. I’ve read many times people just making simple absolute statements like “strength training increases maximal strength but does little to change the rate of force development”. But my point is that depends on how much max strength you’ve already developed. At first just lifting a weight increases rate of force development. And I would point out, since we are talking about strength, that you never INTENTIONALY lift a weight slowly anyway…like a bodybuilder might. Intention does count and it has been shown that intentinally lifting in an explosive a manner as possible REGARDLESS of the intensity does improve it…. Also, don’t neglect SSC (stetch shortening cycle) training. Which is why I mentioned that yes, box squats and Anderson squats are great, but DE free squats, or banded de free squats, and squat jumps and things like that are very valuable. Remember that when you do an actual short you need to be able to quickly decelerate the weight, store that potential energey in the muscles, and use it to help explode back up. You can’t do this with box squats or the like. BTW, I want to emphasize that I really mean it, that imo, INTENTION is more important than actual speed when developing absolute strength. And yes, there is actual study evidence to back this up. Don't let anybody tell you that if the bar doesn't move as fast as you'd like it's not doing you any good. As long as you TRY to move it as fast as possilbe then all sorts of good adapations are happening. Increase in muscle tension, etc... I know many won't agree with this but you have to consider what really happens more than what people TELL you will happen :biglaugh:. Basically, what some of these studies seem to show is that increased intramuscular tension, rfd, etc...can be gained by simply intending to do an ISOMETRIC exercise with more explosive force for a period of time and then have those increases actually produce increases in contractile movements. So, in this case, not only is the speed of movement the key, since there is no movement, but simply the intention. Not to say that you don't want to increase you speed. According to Steven Plisk ,this is known as Full volitional effort - a deliberate attempt to maximally accelerate the resistance, even if it’s too heavy to move rapidly, and it yields the greatest neuromuscular excitation and subsequently adaptive response. This quote is taken from "Conditioning for Strength and Human Performance" by T. Jeff Chandler and Lee E. Brown. |
Well put yet again E :)
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Well thanks for the thoughts guys. I read that through once but I think I'm going to have to read it through again when I'm not so tired. lol
IronWorker |
I, for one, have found that I see more benefits from RE work than DE work. Probably because of the point that Eric brought up about the fact that very few people lift slowly on purpose.
From a "powerbuilding" perspective, or people following somethign that smells and tastes like WSBB but aren't competing powerlifters, I would say that DE work may have limited use in the grand scheme of things. Not that it is bad, but there may be better ways to spend your time. |
Monday Aug 18th/2008
Well had a pretty sweet weekend at the cabin but minimal sleep so I decided doing any ME work today wouldn't be that useful. Before I even saw Andrew's post I decided I was going to do some good old fashioned RE work today. I think a mix of RE/DE work is probably what I'll start working into my non-ME days. Weight: Well the scale read 188lbs (+7lbs in 3 days) which I think is totally whacked. I'll check it again next time. Bent Knee GMs -bar x 5 -95lbs x 5 -115lbs x 3 -135lbs x 3 -135lbs 2x5 Tt was a good a day as any to learn how to do GMs properly. I guess you could call all of those weights PRs. lol Didn't want to go heavy on the first time doing them so we just focused on keeping a tight arch and trying not to get into a squat position. Had the safeties set to about 4" above the hip. (They were level with the hip when standing straight up) RE Bench - bar x 8 - 135lbs x 5 - 155lbs x 8 - 175lbs x 8 - 195lbs x 8 - 205lbs x 5 Well the RE work went better then I expected. I died hard on the 6th rep of my last set so that was good point to stop. Definately get a different feel then ME work...much more burny. RE High Box Squats -bar x 5 -135lbs x 4 -185lbs x 3 -185lbs x 8 -195lbs x 8 -205lbs x 8 Had a box that brought me to ~1-2" above paralell. Never tried a back squat with a box before. I can definately see how they help to build your out of the hole power. We wouldn't normally do a squat on GM day but we figured since we started so light on GMs we probably should. Pull-ups bw x 3 bw + 10lbs x 3 bw + 15lbs x 3 bw + 5lbs x 3 Got pretty damn tired after this so no rows or dips. Thougths Well the RE work felt pretty good. I think it will be nice to throw that in there every once in a while. Maybe it will have a good hypertrophy effect as well. We will see. IronWorker |
Wednesday August 21st/2008
Well as I figured there was a sign above the scale today that said "might be off as much as 5% high." So who knows where I'm actually at. ME Deads -60kg x 5 -80kg x 3 -100kg x 2 -120kg x 1 -140kg x 1 -150kg x 1 -160kg x 1,0(5kg PR!) -140kg x 3 Very solid day. I tried for a second single on the new PR but it was not to be. But w.e I'm still happy with that. Thats 352lbs woo woo! Front Squats -bar x 5 -95lbs x 4 -115lbs x 5 -135lbs x 5 -155lbs x 5 -175lbs x 5 Well I felt like my flexibility was awesome and I was getting super low. Felt great. I don't think I've ever lifted heavier with front squats. Nice. ME BB Military Press - bar x 5 - 75lbs x 4 - 95lbs x 3 - 115lbs x 2 - 135lbs x 1 - 145lbs x 1 - 135lbs x 3 I'm not exactly sure on the reps of that. I did this workout last night and it was a late workout so I didn't do my journal right when I got home. The weights are right but I can't remember the reps of the last set.... might have been 2? Anyways, pretty solid regardless. Hanging Leg Raises bw x8,8,9 I think I can finally start trying for a 3x9 now. Yay. Oblique Work 3x5 - 40lbs,45lbs,50lbs Thougths It was a late workout today but I ate like crazy today so I still had energy. Lots of pasta to fuel me. After the workout my workout partner helped me haul down my old ass stove and washing machine since I got new ones. I threw them in my apartment's dumpster... lol I dont' think you're sposed to do that but good thing it was dark. My apartment is damn near complete. Just some painting and cleaning left to do and I'm damn happy about it. IronWorker |
Nice deadlifting I dub :)
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Dido :)
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Thanks boyz!
Hey, anyone know any good shoulder stretches? Ross? My shoulder has been a little sore lately (mostly after heavy M press days). I was thinking I should probably get prehabbing it before it gets bad. Its usually pretty sore in the morning when I wake up and then gets better throughout the day. Also I guess I should say that it doesn't really bother my *while* I'm lifting at all. Its all on my off days. IronWorker |
Shoulder issues joint related or muscle?
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adrenaline does wonderful things for pain blocking :)
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But it's up to the individual, I think, and if they are a "grinder" or a faster lifter. Some people will absolute need to do dedicated DE stuff to really develop it and some people will not need as much. And of course things could change down the road. But I really don't like the idea of just telling people to do everything without assessing where their deficits are. IW, look at the last post in the "stetching and flexibilty" article (Training Articles). And at the end of the injuries sticky for some posts on shoulders. That, I think, should pretty much hook you up. |
Andrew, its definately muscle related.
Thanks Eric. |
I personally find DE work to be... difficult on many levels. What I find is that in my own training I already accelerate the bar. When I drop too much weight I find that I lose a lot of tightness in my lift. Without sufficient resistance I either need to dial back, or I end up out of whack because I no longer have enough feedback from the weight. I'm not talking about loads of 30% either, but around 50% I already lose a feel for the bar. So low weight low rep work ends up being wasted time for me. My suspicion is that it is a much better tool when you are an elite level (or very accomplished) powerlifter, as working at 50% of a 900lb squat will be a VERY different feel from working at 50% of a 350lb squat. Maybe I'm way off there. RE work, on the other hand, has very good feedback, feel and results for me.
More thoughts on this Monday but it is time to go home. |
I know exactly what you mean. If you are already fast at those percentages you are ending up working too much in the speed-strength realm. It's going to depend on individual movements sometimes but I can end up spending more energy on decellerating the damn thing at too low a percentage, as well as losing touch with the bar, as you are saying. May as well be doing medicine ball or smith machine throws..which is a whole nother topic.
If you've ever done medicine ball throws you'll realize that you don't start really relating to the ball until you've gotten very fatigued and it becomes a perceived effort kind of thing. Now, that could help explain the feeling of more benefit from RE work, maybe. But I think it is an individual thing to some extent and and training status to some extent like you mentioned so what it comes down to is what I always say "what happens is what matters". For me I tend to get more benefit cycling through from 55 to around 65 percent for a number of weeks and then testing, or backing back down or whatever. Not for all lifts, of course. But again, I believe, and have personally derived the most benefit from the "intention is what matters the most" way of thinking. But I KNOW that some people are different. |
Well I figured out what muscle is sore. I dont' knwo what its called but if you hold your arms straight out in front of you and try to move your arms upwards against a force that is one that is hurting. Oh ya, its only my left for w/e reason.
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You talking about the "empty can test", IW?
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Friday Aug 22nd/2008
Shoulder is all messed up so I did solely lower body exercises today. I was sad that I couldn't bench. Squats -bar x 5 -135lbs x 5 -185lbs x 3 -205lbs x 2 -225lbs x 1 -245lbs x 1 -265lbs x 1 -275lbs x 1 (current PR) -275lbs x 1(ish) -225lbs x 5 Well these went quite well today. My spotter barely touched me on the way up on the second single but I don't think it was much. Light Band Work Just did some light shoulder movements and some stretching. Bent Knee GMs -bar x 5 -95lbs x 5 -115lbs x 3 -135lbs x 3 -155lbs x 3 -175lbs x 1 -185lbs x 0 -135lbs x 5 Back was pretty tired from squats so I didn't have much left. I think I am getting the form down better on these now. Thougths I was sad to not be able to work any uppder body. O wellz. Hopefully the weekend off will help my shoudler lots. Oh yeah, I don't know what the empty cup thing is all about? IronWorker |
Look at the links I pointed you to and get back to me. It's probably just rotator cuff tendonitis secondary to overactive deltoids, pecs, lats, etc...maybe a primary impingement.
The empty can test is simiilar to what your described you tried except the thumb is pointed down (like you are emptying a can) and the arm is held in the scapular plane...around 30 degrees in. This is a provocative test for the supraspinatus. There is also the "full can test" which is supposed to be just as good but the thumb isn't held all the way down but just to around 45 degrees. The idea is that this produces compression in the supraspinatus and and tells you its is weak, painful, etc...it's in the link. Most likely you need to do the standard stuff and you'll be good. Stretch the internal rotators..pecs and lats, do scapular strengthening and stability, and implement rotator cuff strengthening. I would start with the scapular stuff and stretching first before putting in the RC stuff later on. This is just the basic beginning and you can get all the other details from the places I pointed you. Including some other specialized stretches and areas to work on. Check range of motion in the shoulders with the tests and then correct any deficiencies there (it's easy really). All this sounds really complicated but it's not. It's just sort of what you do to adress what can typically happen when you do a lot of heavy pressing, etc...and not just that. You should basically find a lot of differences between the hurting shoulder and the non-hurting shoulder. |
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