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  #271  
Old 03-20-2008, 11:11 AM
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widdoes2504 widdoes2504 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
Single leg stuff will grow you legs quick. You'll get a lot of growth in the upper thighs especially the adductors which are huge anyway. This will all help your squatting.
I was doing a lot of unilateral work with my legs in addition to squats and saw great results. I especially liked the step-ups. On a side note Marv, take care of your knees.
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  #272  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:13 PM
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yeah good luck with the knees man...are you icing or massaging them at all?
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  #273  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:07 PM
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Will do widdoes. No Im not icing them or anything Pity, There not that bad at this stage. Hopefully I can keep it that way.
Some bigger wheels will be cool Eric, Although alot of my clothes are getting tight around the ass and upper thigh already.
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  #274  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
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Some bigger wheels will be cool Eric, Although alot of my clothes are getting tight around the ass and upper thigh already.
yeah....my boxers don't fit very well anymore...especially in the legs...and i've popped buttons off a few pairs of pants....but it's a side effect i'll gladly pay for
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  #275  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:21 PM
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Haha....I guess I will pay the price too!
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  #276  
Old 03-20-2008, 05:38 PM
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yeah....my boxers don't fit very well anymore...especially in the legs...and i've popped buttons off a few pairs of pants....but it's a side effect i'll gladly pay for
And smile while paying.....
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  #277  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:44 PM
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Sunday 23rd march
volume day

Stepups 45lbs db's 1x14,3x20,1x24
Pull throughs 1x10,1x12,1x9,1x10,1x12
Bench 101kg 5x4
Rows 90kg 5x8
Grip work

Okay was feeling a little worn out today. I added an extra block to my step ups, to slow my drop I was holding the db's out in front a touch for balance. Is this cheating? I filmed my 3rd an 4th sets of pull throughs. I wasnt thinking about my technique at all and i can see its not real good today. From what I can see im rounding out the back on the way down. I definetly didnt feel them in the glutes as much as usual. I probably am standing abit to far forward I felt abit unstable. I lightened up rows today and went for 5x8. I filmed my 3rd and 4th set of these also. I seem to be dropping my chest down into the bar at the end of the pull. Any advice on the vids is welcome.

MaRvO.



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  #278  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:22 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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This has become the new row style. It's what everyone is doing. JS rows have just created a monster of bad rowing. I can tell you exactly what is going wrong but in order to sort is out you'd have to drop the weight and do a ligher one not off the floor. Or a cable row would be good to nail down basic technique.

What you are doing not will eventually comprimise your shoulders and thus upper back. You lower back has not much of a set in it. I won't say more until you respond except that there is basic technique flaw that is being compounded by the weight over quality aspect of this lift.

Somewhere along the line the "internet row" was invented. The row has become a primary lift instead of an assistance so people do the same crazy shit they do on squats, deadlifts, bench, whatever to get as much weight as possible. I still haven't seen any row contests but I'm sure someone will invent a "row shirt"

As I've said to everyone doing this....why not just do cleans or something if you want to pull something so fast and heavy instead of doing the bastard chilld of a row, SLDL and clean, etc...

The pullthroughs are exactly what you said. I don't know if you need to change postion. That's something you have to play around with until you lock in the position that feels right. You kinda just walked out and went to town without any adjustment. I know for myself I have to move around to find the sweet spot everytime the weights go up.

But what you need to do is just SLOW DOWN. Pullthroughs are not a power lift. You need th negative to be slow enough that you can concentrate on keeping the back set and dong hip flexion. You are simply letting the wieghts pull you back and down (probably having to do with position also). Then you are just yanking it up. Like you said though your werent paying attention to form so I know you are already aware of this. You will probably be able to go heavier once you get it down.

I could be imagining this but it seems like your knees are a bit on the inside...not completely in line with you feel. Also it seems that your feet are spilling over the soles of you shoes...a bad situation.
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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  #279  
Old 03-23-2008, 06:19 PM
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Ok Eric, were do I start with the rows? I can see my back isnt set, probably from having the idea I should start lower than horizontal, so I can start the lift with hip extension. I am also pulling the bar up with the arms into the sternum ( which is tender today). I think I should be squeezing the lats together more and pulling the bar up below the sternum.I will film my pull throughs again next week and see what you think. You are probably right about my feet. The chucks are quite a narrow shoe and I havent been lacing them up very tight. I will start tying them up tightly or I might start wearing something with a wider sole. The chucks feel abit unstable when I do lunges and stuff like that. What do you wear while training?

Last edited by marv; 03-23-2008 at 08:38 PM.
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  #280  
Old 03-24-2008, 11:25 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Well chucks are good, pretty much for average sqatting and even deadlifting. But they don't stand up to a lot of variety and they will tend to break down. And depending on your squatting style they may not be so good for that either. That's the problem with them having no re-enforcment and the sole is not extra wide with really helps with a lifting shoe.

I like Otomix a lot. They are affordable. But there's always addidas and some other standards. I used to use running shoes (kinda simple ones) and then chucks for years but recently I finally broke down and got some dedicated shoes simply because chucks are gave me the same problems as you are getting and they are no longer so cheap they can be replaced (for lifting) willy nilly which is kinda what you have to do...replace them often and even then it's not perfect. The good thing about chucks is their simplicity with the flat sole but there are some affordable lifting shoes on the market.

On the rows you're not really doing any hip extension (I don't know why you'd want to). When you see the chest coming down, the shoulders coming forward and the elbows extending so far behind the back it's pretty much always the same picture. The problem is that this kind of row if forcing people into this bad setup and they never really learn a decent row. It's basically nothing more than brute force.

You definitely do not need to be below parallel, or even parallel, to do a row. It's not even natural to do a row completely parallel, imo. That doesn't mean you want to be way up at a high angle but the concentration should be on a good technique and not on how low your torso is. And not many have the flexibility to keep a set back AND lift a heavy weight that way without using hip and leg movement or what have you.

I would recommend you use a low cable row, seated, to learn the basic mechanics, and then transfer that understanding to the barbell. I'm swimming against the stream here since the JS row has been hyped up so much on the internet rounds and you have people like Rip saying rows must be done off the floor. I could name just as many reasons to do a row from a hang as off the floor. The swcrewed up part is the bullshit message....you do it off the floor to make it harder, but then everybody uses crazy form to make it EASIER to do heavier weights. Rows are a means to an end not the end in itself.

I'd like some of these people to test whether they can do a strict row at around the same weight as their bench. After all you can't bench with a lot of body language to help. You're laying prone on a bench. Anyway off the stump and onto the info

You said you should bring your lats together but what you need to bring together is your scapula. The big problem is that in order to complete the movement your scapula are elevating. so then your shoulder joint glides forward. The scapula should be depressed and then retracting. Your shoulders should be down and the chest out somewhat like the beginning of a good deadlfit.

The best thing to do is the depress (bring down) the scapula and retract them (pinch them together) and poke the chest out at the beginning. Then while maintaining this postion allow the scapula to move forward along the ribcage with the weight of the bar but just a bit. Note that they are coming forward but not elevating. This means the shoulders stay down. Then you initiate the movement by bringing the scapulas together as hard as possible. This should create a natural path for the bar which will be somewhat below the sternum. At the top of the movment the shoulders should be back (and still locked down) and you pause to get a good pinch. Neck neutral at all times.

You elbows will not extend so far behind you in a good row as you will see with this technique. The scapula come together and the shoulders and arms come back together rather than just the shoulder joints hyperextending like the rows you're doing. Which also creates the bar coming into the sternum...

It is better to set the back and not be quite parallel than row with a rounded and loaded back. And a regular barbell row (not from the floor) has the advantage of being a great trainer for back enduarance. Especially lumbar endurance which is just what the area needs. And yes, you can row VERY powerfully and drive the bar up. It just may not be with artificially enhanced poundage. People who think you can't row powerfully without all the cheating just don't know how to row.
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